QuiGon

Well, I have a unique and farsighted perspective on things. Tell me, what has happened in Iraq that will be considered a significant, historical impact that will effect the daily lives of ordinary Americans in the year 2057...? The removal of Saddam Hussein...?
What part of "please quote me accurately" did you not understand...? I never said the United States would crumble because of immigration - I said because of illegal immigration. There is a difference between legalized immigration and illegal immigration. They are not synonymous terms.

I don't mind you quoting me, but please just be accurate. Perhaps you're not smart enough to understand the difference between the two, but I am optimistic that that is not the case. What you're doing is putting words in my mouth and then debating with what you pretend I have said and not what I actually have said. That's the sign of your intellectual shortcomings.
Yeah.. I think illegal immigration is going to damage the United States... that's a really radical view I got myself there

Harry Boy

They stopped being law abiding the day they crossed the border illegally, they are now criminals, they broke our law. THEY ARE ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS.

BUSH IS A STINKING F-CKING DEMOCRAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ALIENS.

BUT WE WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT, OUR COUNTRY IS CHANGING SOMEDAY MANY OF YOU WILL BE AFFECTED THIS ILLEGAL ALIEN THING, ONE OF YOU MAY EVEN BE MURDERED BY ONE OF THEM.

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Seymour93

How about losing our second major war in thirty five year period? How about our international reputation going down the drain? How about opening Pandora's box in the Middle East? How about 3,000 Americans losing their lives (which is more than the 9/11 attacks)? Are those minor footnotes in history to you?

They said the same about the Irish in the 1850's, the Jews and Eastern Europeans in the early 1900's... our nation has seemed to survive those immigration waves (much of it was illegal mind you). Why is it going to be any different with the Mexicans?

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Real World

You can't, I've seen the article, and why is it that htey post only the results, and not the actual questions and statistical breakdown? Unless I missed it, I didn't see it. Plus, I've posted how Maericans feel in a very comprehensive poll a month or so ago.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Seymour93

Here are the questions...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...070525poll.pdf

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QuiGon

Sorry, but this is not going to go down in history as a "major war". Our "international reputation" rises and falls throughout time. The Civil War was a major war. WW2 was a major war. Iraq was not. Here are some numbers you should consider...

Civil War: 600,000 Americans dead in 4 years.
World War II: 350,000 Americans killed in 4 years
Iraq: 3,100 Americans killed in 4 years.

Study those numbers hard and please tell me how Iraq is going to be considered a "major war" 50 years from now. Use logic and reason, not emotion, in your reply (if you are even capable of such). America lost twice as many men at Iwo Jima as the entire Iraq War. 3,100 dead was a good month in WW2.

You're wrong. There has never been illegal immigration in the numbers we are experiencing today.
Because of the social programs you liberals love to throw at any illegal that manages to step foot in this country. 100 years ago, you couldn't come here illegally and immediately steal social services and health care from the citizenry. Hundred of hospitals and health care clinics have had to shut down in California alone because of illegal immigration.

I'm surprised you aren't educated enough to know the difference between immigration of 100 years ago and the illegal immigration of today. Actually, on second thought, no... your ignorance doesn't surprise me in the slightest...

Real World

WELFARE STATE~! Hello, anybody home?



May 12, 2006
Amnesty and Continued Low Skill Immigration Will Substantially Raise Welfare Costs and Poverty
by Robert Rector

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

I'm looking at the pdf right now. Funny how people love polls when they support their position. There are holes all over poll numbers. I especially like the figures regarding the publics view on Iraq 4-5 years ago, versus today. I'm sure everyone was happy we invaded, just like everyone would be happy with an Amnesty in a Welfare state. Let's pass policies based on polls.

Anyhow, it's funny how the NYT didn't mention some of the numbers that didn't fit it's agenda. Plus, I'd like to see them ask about illegals while mentioning that they cost more than they provide. They wouldn't do that though, instead they ask cushy questions like whether or not law abding wonderful people should be allowed to stay.


74. Should illegal immigrants be prosecuted and deported for being in the U.S. illegally,
or shouldn't they?

Should be prosecuted Should not DK/NA
5/18-23/07 69 24 6

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

This is why I hate the NYT, and why their agenda is so blatantly obvious. Here is their line from the story:

But only 15 percent of respondents favored fences as the main method to reduce illegal border crossings.

Someone reading that, and trusting the NYT to be an honest broker of the truth, would think that 85% of the country doesn't want a fence right? Hmm....so why is this utter BS? Let's look at the actual question that the people polled were presented with, shall we?

81. If you had to choose, which of the following actions do you think would be most effective in reducing the number of illegal immigrants who come to the United States from Mexico — building more fences along the border or increasing border patrols at checkpoints?

Fences Border patrols Both (vol.) DK/NA
5/18-23/07 15 68 10 7


So they tell the readers that only 15% wanted fences, when they forced people to choose between the two. That is agenda, bias, and slant, period. I love the both they put, with the (vol.) next to it. What does that mean? That some people answered both, but that it was a "voluntary" answer? Such BS. Typical NYT.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Seymour93

I like it how you berate me for comparing immigration of today to that of 19th and 20th century immigration while just above you compare the Civil War to the Iraq War. Errrmmm.... ok the Iraq War may not be a major war in the sense the Civil War was, but you must remember they were using muskets back then. 14 year old boys were killing 14 year old boys from just a couple hundred miles away. Of course we aren't going to experience the same casualties as we did when we were fighting on American soil some 140 years ago. The Iraqi army was/is a joke and we currently spend over seven times more than our closest competitor on military matters. In modern times Kosovo was not a major war, Iraq is.

Trivializing the soldiers and marines who've given their lives in Iraq is very offensive BTW. Comparing the (American) Civil War to Iraq like you did, well that would be like me saying, "2,973 people who were murdered on 9/11 isn't that much compared to number of Iraqi civilians who've died in the war."

100 years ago child labor was thriving in this country. I would say some of those social programs that the dreaded liberals have promoted have made this nation much better off. Disagree?

Hundred of hospitals ehh? Would love to see a link that supports that BS number.

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