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***Patters*** · 05-14-2007, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

Well our previous post along with this one lets see what are you inferring?

You posted.."There's obviously more to this story than has been reported so far" Ok....why make this comment? OK you could have meant something else possibly, doubtful but OK, but you followed it up with..."If the whole story came out it would have added greater poignancy to the trooper's life and helped us to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again." HHMM "if the whole story came out" ??? WTF? The WHOLE story is out it was witnessed by a citizen and his son and the Officers camera in his cruiser.

You'll find more on the story here:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...nd_2_killings/

If I was you, I would not fear questions the story might raise because Kenney was completely criminal for shooting and running over the officer. There is no way to justify Kenney's behavior. The witness in the car said that Kenney was terrified, but even if that fear was justified, it cannot justify murder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

I believe my reading comprehension is fine. "Investigation"? Exactly what does that that mean? Why would their be any kind of investigation? Oh I know you believe the scumbags family and we "can learn" from it by finding out that their was something behind the "feud"? Here was a scumbag that had a drug problem, was in constant trouble in a family of trouble makers. So what we can learn from an "investigation" is that the Officers should not arrest bad guys because they are bad and they could blame you for their problems instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions.

That's not what I had in mind. Perhaps procedures in cases where there is a known personal feud could be improved to provide officers with greater protection? Perhaps had McKay agreed to back off and bring in a second cop things wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. Couldn't McKay have said, for instance, "Okay, just keep your hands in the air and I'll call in a second cop like you requested?" Maybe the system had opportunities to deal with Kenney earlier? Maybe we should find out how and why Kenney got his gun? Maybe we should learn more about Kenney, whether or not he had that gun for other reasons? Maybe his death solves more than one crime?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

Do you know how many times I have heard that I ruined a bad guys life after arresting them?...at least 70% of the time. I have actually been told that after arresting armed robbers. "I" ruined their life by doing my job. You know how many times a suspect makes an excessive force complaint after being charged with an assault?....virtually every time it is a defense tactic by their lawyers to try and bargain with.

Even if McKay was guilty of using excessive force in the past (and there's no evidence I've seen that supports that), it still doesn't justify Kenney's action, so I don't see your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

HHHmmm scum bag is carrying a .45, shoots the Officer 4 times and then runs him over. Again WHAT INVESTIGATION? Are you implying that maybe we can learn he made a tactical mistake that other Officers can learn from? Some how I don't think that is your point.

That's exactly what I meant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

At least be man enough to admit your feelings instead of pulling BS of "You righties have no idea what I think" Oh Please. You wrote your post in English and can be taken no other way.

My issue was with vigilante justice, something I strongly oppose, but in this case it seemed necessary given that Floyd, by killing Kenney, gave McKay his only chance at life. If Kenney had not died, we might have learned something useful for preventing similar tragedies. As is, now I doubt if there will be much of an investigation out of respect for the deceased.

pats-blue · 05-14-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

Having just read the previous 39 comments on this thread, difficult to understand how this degenerated into a right/wing left wing hate fest.. Sdaniels initial comments were pretty inocuous and were inflamed as most things tend to be on this board. Without regard it is symbolic as to what often goes on here.

With regard to the above sounds like you are denying the need for an investigation, it is routine in any shooting to have an investigation. The truth may be found out for his family and fellow officers, then again an investigation and the absence of any witness may not prove anything.. but this is something owed to the family of the officer and the other officers who are effected by this tragedy. From what we know now the shooting appears justified and there was cause for the use of extreme force. But that is the way that our justice system works, over and over again this level of force is used and then justified by our justice system.. not to do this will always raise some level of doubt against the officer.

Every situation is a learning experience, even though this perp may have been a well known bad guy, the officer may have been too lax as he felt as though he knew him and approached him in a manner that should have been more defensive. PO's drill on how to avoid the mistakes of others for their own safety.. this is what it is, a tragedy that has turned into a right wing/left wing crap fight.

WHAT? If you read the posts you would realize that the poster I was referring to was not talking about investigating the shooting...which by the way "appears justified"???? Clue...the Officer didn't fire his weapon at all. The bad guy killed the cop in cold blood. It WAS witnessed by THREE people and video taped by the Officers cruiser. I have no idea what you are going on about. I am well aware of how investigations are done in shootings I've been involved in them. The poster was referring to the "feud" that there was "more to the story" No there isn't....a scumbag loser killed an Officer in cold blood. The passing citizen witnessed the whole thing and took action, again witnessed including the passenger in the scumbags car and again VIDEO TAPE. Now we know? What "truth" are you looking for? It was known right awayWhat happened. A CRIMINAL with no respect for anybody took the life of a well respected Officer and FATHER. I am well aware what Police Officers do and train and that IS NOT what the poster was inferring or I was inferring by an investigation. For one it isn't an "investigation" where officers learn on tragedies lik this, we will eventually see the tape from the cruiser. We are aware that sometms you get lax and it can cost your life...but you need to read what you wrote because it can't possibly be what you intended if you actually read all the posts and about the case. You must have a completely different shooting you are referring to as this one had Three witnesses and was caught on the Officers dashboard camera..and then you say this..."From what we know now the shooting appears justified and there was cause for the use of extreme force. But that is the way that our justice system works, over and over again this level of force is used and then justified by our justice system.. not to do this will always raise some level of doubt against the officer." Doubt against the officer?? HES DEAD AND NEVER FIRED HIS WEAPON!!!! I also REPEAT that the poster I was referring to was NOT referring to an investigation about the shooting itself but the "feud" not the incident, so you may want to re read the posts and farmiliarize yourself with this case before referring to my post again.

As far as the left/right BS There was no need in my opinion that "lefties" should have been mentioned in the intial post, but also the comparing it to the soldier deaths threads isn't in the same ballpark.

But lo and behold it turned out that someone on the board was searching for a reason to cry about the badguy getting his by eating up the "feud" BS and implying that there may have been a "reason" the bad guy did it that could/should be investigated. Thereby indicating there is a reason for the murder of a police officer that an investigation into the "feud" could uncover. Thats BS and just made the orignal poster correct when he shouldn't have been.

pats-blue · 05-14-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

You'll find more on the story here:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...nd_2_killings/

If I was you, I would not fear questions the story might raise because Kenney was completely criminal for shooting and running over the officer. There is no way to justify Kenney's behavior. The witness in the car said that Kenney was terrified, but even if that fear was justified, it cannot justify murder.

I don't "fear" questions because they don't raise any for me. But it is people like you that eat up this drivel and that does bother me because instead of honoring a brave Officer we are listening to drivel about a "feud". He was a CRIMINAL fact and like you said NOTHING would possibly give him the right to shoot the Officer in the past so WHAT "questions"???

That's not what I had in mind. Perhaps procedures in cases where there is a known personal feud could be improved to provide officers with greater protection? Perhaps had McKay agreed to back off and bring in a second cop things wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. Couldn't McKay have said, for instance, "Okay, just keep your hands in the air and I'll call in a second cop like you requested?" Maybe the system had opportunities to deal with Kenney earlier? Maybe we should find out how and why Kenney got his gun? Maybe we should learn more about Kenney, whether or not he had that gun for other reasons? Maybe his death solves more than one crime?

Huh? Oh you mean like nt arresting the bad guys and stop doing thier job? IT WAS A THREE OFFICER DEPARTMENT!!! He was a criminal, of course he didn't like the police call for another Officer? Yeah in a 3 officer department. "Keep your hands in the air" the guy shot the cop for crying out loud do you realize how retarded that sounds? I guarantee you he did give this CRIMINAL orders and he obviously did not follow them. Procedures to protect officers where there is a running feud??? Yeah he could not do his job in the three man department. As far as what you ment by "investigation" you said, "My only point was that I don't favor vigilante law, but in this case the soldier did the right thing. That said, the feud could conceivably raise questions that will probably never be answered, and probably shouldn't so the officer's family can mourn in peace" HHHMM ou are all about the "feud" you have attempted to back track and try and drag tactics, possible other crimes the killer commited with the gun and safety nto it now but NOTHING in your previous posts brought up anything but the "feud" and how there was more to the story and how the "feud could conceivably raise questions" Those are your words now you want to bring in offcier safety as if that was what you ment? I'm call BS, thats just backtracking. By the way the gun and other things WILL be investigated.

Even if McKay was guilty of using excessive force in the past (and there's no evidence I've seen that supports that), it still doesn't justify Kenney's action, so I don't see your point.

That's exactly what I meant.

Well maybe it was this that you posted.."My only point was that I don't favor vigilante law, but in this case the soldier did the right thing. That said, the feud could conceivably raise questions that will probably never be answered, and probably shouldn't so the officer's family can mourn in peace" I posted what I did because You referenced the article which referred to the "feud". Since you seem to think it raised questions I addressed what the losers defenders were saying. I was addressing your apparent "questions" about the "feud".

My issue was with vigilante justice, something I strongly oppose, but in this case it seemed necessary given that Floyd, by killing Kenney, gave McKay his only chance at life. If Kenney had not died, we might have learned something useful for preventing similar tragedies. As is, now I doubt if there will be much of an investigation out of respect for the deceased.

Oh please you just made Qui right in his initial post and there is no reason he should have been since his lefty comment was out of line. Pardon me if I think your "respect" for the fallen Officer is disengenious. "Vigilante justice"?? Seems you are mourning the criminal more than the officer to me.

***DarrylS*** · 05-14-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats-blue

WHAT? If you read the posts you would realize that the poster I was referring to was not talking about investigating the shooting...which by the way "appears justified"???? Clue...the Officer didn't fire his weapon at all. The bad guy killed the cop in cold blood. It WAS witnessed by THREE people and video taped by the Officers cruiser. I have no idea what you are going on about. I am well aware of how investigations are done in shootings I've been involved in them. The poster was referring to the "feud" that there was "more to the story" No there isn't....a scumbag loser killed an Officer in cold blood. The passing citizen witnessed the whole thing and took action, again witnessed including the passenger in the scumbags car and again VIDEO TAPE. Now we know? What "truth" are you looking for? It was known right awayWhat happened. A CRIMINAL with no respect for anybody took the life of a well respected Officer and FATHER. I am well aware what Police Officers do and train and that IS NOT what the poster was inferring or I was inferring by an investigation. For one it isn't an "investigation" where officers learn on tragedies lik this, we will eventually see the tape from the cruiser. We are aware that sometms you get lax and it can cost your life...but you need to read what you wrote because it can't possibly be what you intended if you actually read all the posts and about the case. You must have a completely different shooting you are referring to as this one had Three witnesses and was caught on the Officers dashboard camera..and then you say this..."From what we know now the shooting appears justified and there was cause for the use of extreme force. But that is the way that our justice system works, over and over again this level of force is used and then justified by our justice system.. not to do this will always raise some level of doubt against the officer." Doubt against the officer?? HES DEAD AND NEVER FIRED HIS WEAPON!!!! I also REPEAT that the poster I was referring to was NOT referring to an investigation about the shooting itself but the "feud" not the incident, so you may want to re read the posts and farmiliarize yourself with this case before referring to my post again.

As far as the left/right BS There was no need in my opinion that "lefties" should have been mentioned in the intial post, but also the comparing it to the soldier deaths threads isn't in the same ballpark.

But lo and behold it turned out that someone on the board was searching for a reason to cry about the badguy getting his by eating up the "feud" BS and implying that there may have been a "reason" the bad guy did it that could/should be investigated. Thereby indicating there is a reason for the murder of a police officer that an investigation into the "feud" could uncover. Thats BS and just made the orignal poster correct when he shouldn't have been.

IN all of your long winded rhetoric and blindness to all of what has been posted here, you are missing the whole point of this thread. Sometimes anger and perception of how you want things to be, clouds judgement. There is not a lot of difference in what is being posted by both sides. Your threads may be easier to read and understand by utlizing shorter paragraphs.

pats-blue · 05-14-2007, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

IN all of your long winded rhetoric and blindness to all of what has been posted here, you are missing the whole point of this thread. Sometimes anger and perception of how you want things to be, clouds judgement. There is not a lot of difference in what is being posted by both sides. Your threads may be easier to read and understand by utlizing shorter paragraphs.

Thanks for the grammar tip at 4 AM for me. Way to add to the debate and back your points up.

Short enough paragraph for you?

***Patters*** · 05-14-2007, 08:31 AM

Pats-blue, you're off the wall if you think I would defend some thug who shot an officer four times and then ran over him with his car. Perhaps some anger management training for you would prevent you from jumping to such perverse conclusions. That said, the way the tragedy unfolded, it's unlikely we'll never know all the facts. Was Kenney simply a psychopath? Was he schizophrenic? Did he suffer from irrational fears? Was any of this known? Could he or should he have been helped before this crime occurred? And, of course, there is the possibility that McKay was a thug of a cop (as in any organization, some small percent of police are dishonest). Regardless, there is no justification for Kenney's crime whatsoever. None at all. The cop was a victim of horrible and brutal crime, and there's no way a rational person could defend Kenney.

pats-blue · 05-14-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Pats-blue, you're off the wall if you think I would defend some thug who shot an officer four times and then ran over him with his car. Perhaps some anger management training for you would prevent you from jumping to such perverse conclusions. That said, the way the tragedy unfolded, it's unlikely we'll never know all the facts. Was Kenney simply a psychopath? Was he schizophrenic? Did he suffer from irrational fears? Was any of this known? Could he or should he have been helped before this crime occurred? And, of course, there is the possibility that McKay was a thug of a cop (as in any organization, some small percent of police are dishonest). Regardless, there is no justification for Kenney's crime whatsoever. None at all. The cop was a victim of horrible and brutal crime, and there's no way a rational person could defend Kenney.

Anger managment training?? WTF? You don't know me. I post YOUR exact words which mention NOTHING but the feud and an investigation and how there is "more to the story" and the best you can come up with is I need
anger mangement training? You are a piece of work, love the insults and labeling. Whaty exactly did I do that I need anger managment training? Or are you just baiting like you always do and trying to talk down to people again as always. Buddy I am quite sure my body of work in this life will measure up quite well. Thanks for being your routinely condesending self. Anger management..your a joke, thanks for the buzzword though and you wonder where I could jump to conclusions, maybe it is YOUR body of work which include your posts which mention nothing but the feud and "more to the story". Nice deflection though with your attitude you couldn't do my job and certainly are not worth my time.

***QuiGon*** · 05-14-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

You righties have no idea what I think, and in you're desperate attempt to make this thread in a battle of who's the better patriot, you are making off-the-wall accusations.

Oh yeah, I forgot... telling other people what they think is your trademark maneuver...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

If the whole story came out it would have added greater poignancy to the trooper's life and helped us to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again. You guys are foolish for thinking that liberals believe that an investigation might have shown that the trooper got what he deserved. I mean, anything's possible, but I think that's highly unlikely.

Hey, I am just restating the post in this forum... essentially they have gone like this...

QuiGon: Nice to see a cop killer get what he deserves

Lowlife Scumbag who shall remain nameless: I get a sense that there's a certain amount of happiness here that the cop was killed

Patters: I am sure there is more to the story, and more behind the "feud".

LIke I said in my original post, liberals here will be outraged that a cop killer got what he deserved.

***QuiGon*** · 05-14-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

Having just read the previous 39 comments on this thread, difficult to understand how this degenerated into a right/wing left wing hate fest.. Sdaniels initial comments were pretty inocuous and were inflamed as most things tend to be on this board.

Stating that I was happy that a cop got killed is an innocuous comment..? You're joking, right..?

***QuiGon*** · 05-14-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

And, of course, there is the possibility that McKay was a thug of a cop (as in any organization, some small percent of police are dishonest).

Wow. I thought Nem was banned from this board but it's obvious he is just posting under your name. This is one of his favorite maneuvers... the old "I'm not saying the cop was a thug, I am just saying it's possible..." You know, just sort of throwing it out there as another way to spit on the grave of a man who got killed in the line of duty...