Pujo

The government getting out of marriage isn't the same as letting the people decide. Beyond that, I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

There are certain things that government, either directly through the people (as in the case of a ballot initiative) or through their elected representitives, is competent to decide. Other matters are private: the government doesn't tell you who you should be friends with or what job you should have "in the interest of society". Other governments might decide that for you, but in America we decided that we like to have autonimity. I think marriage is on the wrong side of that line right now by being treated as a public matter instead of a private one.

BelichickFan

Marriage is just one of many things the government uses to encourage certain behavior. Just like the tax deduction on mortgage interest is used to encourage home ownership. And the tax deduction on charitable donations is used to encourage charity. Bestowing the privilige of marriage is to encourage the lifestyle that most people think is appropriate and in the best interest of our society.

Pujo

Maybe the government should stop being our nanny and telling us what's best for us? I don't see a difference between this and taking all of your money through taxation and spending it on what they consider to be worthwhile causes.

Real World

So I guess marraige doesn't have any legal ramifications right? It's not like the government can impose it's will upon you because of marraige right? Afterall, marraige is strictly private.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

BelichickFan

That's fine, I'm just saying this isn't wholly inconsistent with other things.

Personally I don't like supporting churches - however I am being forced to as all the charitable donations reduced people's tax burden; if not for that we could lower the base tax rate on everyone.

Seriously, why is the government in the business of supporting churches ? They don't pay taxes on all the donations nor do they pay property tax. It's a scam.

Pujo

I said we're on the wrong side of that line. Marriage is treated like a public matter for some strange reason, but that's not where it belongs.

It's amazing how disinclined people are to remember history. You, Real World, BelichickFan, etc, would all be arguing against letting interracial couples marry if this was 50 years ago (some of you might still think it's a bad idea today).

Face it, people who oppose gay marriage oppose it because they think it's icky and don't want to be reminded that there are gay people in the world. Then they backfill with "principles" about encouraging procreation.

Pujo

I'm with you on that!

Real World

Please don't try to tell me what I would have supported 50 years ago. That's such a pathetic, backhanded accusation of racism. Welcome to the fray I guess. When in doubt, call someone a racist. I guess our points don't fit your "bottom-line" eh? Pathetic.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Pujo

You're no more racist than you are homophobic. If the shoe fits, wear it.

Real World

Yup, more bottom line kind of guy logic. When your point has no merrit, or an arguement has been thrown back in your face, just lob accusations of racism and homophobia. I'd say I'm surprised but....

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897