Dont let Press turn you off from the debate here. For the most part, its educational and fun and seeing how you havent posted too much here...I personally hope you stay.

You do seem rational and Im sure you now regret your Bush vote as much as the rest, well 70%, of US does.

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Isoroku Yamamoto's quote following the attack on Pearl Harbor

Oh you read it too. Good, then probably also read that the NIE that was presented (and used) directly indicated that they had them. On page 339, he out and out admits that the NIE that he submitted should have read differently. A "duuuuh, My bad" moment if I ever saw one.

Don't get me wrong, it's a decent read, but the whole book comes off as a giant Mia culpa for his "not" being more forceful with Bush before the war. Convienent argument now that things don't look so rosie huh. Fact is, he sold them a "bill of goods". Did Bush cherry pick it. Yup, I think he did a bit. But the deeper point is, the people he depended on to give him the information he needed, failed him (failed all of us). Why, well there are lots of reasons and each of us will have to decide which are most accurate. Me, I beleive the CIA failed to adapt quick enough to a post-soviet world and was gutted by fiscal downsizing through the 90's.

Which is why we MUST finish what we started. The answer lies in the carrot and the stick method to an extent. If you can somehow keep Iran's influence at bay, I do think Iraq can be stablized, which is a HUGE blow to AQ. If it actually worked out as a win, Iraq would be a brilliant blow against terrorism. Too late for that though, Bush was killed from within.

Sad thing is: We don't have a clue what's at stake and that's a shame. We will again thouh in a few years.



Actually, I don't regret my vote for Bush at all. I'm not thrilled with many of his positions (like spending and immigration), but all in all, the alternative would have been a disaster, an absolute disaster.

another insult, which you complain about below and threaten to quit the forum, and for which you're already guilty yourself ...

Yes, it is... Shall we review for the 577th time?

Ah yes... you spell out the deduction that I must be a moron if I believe the Bush League lied (which I clearly do), then deny calling me a moron, and finally in the next breath still suggest i'm a moron ... No, you've handled this exchange with pure class and dignity...

I routinely use quite a bit of the former, and a touch of the latter when provoked... Calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion a moron returns on your investment... Don't go acting indignant when you make such a statement and are called on it.... You can't suddenly take the high road when you already detoured us all down the dirt path....

Like I said... Calling a group of people "morons" led to an insult exchange that only you are responsible for... Tell us you disagree that Bush lied, and that is fine... But you didn't... And I'm among that contingent who is beyond convinced that Bush and his circle lied, and continue to lie... Just listening to Cheney belligerantly shoot his mouth off on Meet the Press every 6th week is evidence enough...

Also, citing and leaning on the original pre-war NIE as Bush's excuse really muddens your argument... the embarrassing NIE offered before the Iraq resolution was among the most hastily and poorly written pieces of intelligence assessment in the history of American Intel.... take a look, especially at the 3:55 mark onward.. and at best, the NIE consistently had dissenting opinions. That means (if anyone really read it), there was absolutely NO AGREEMENT among intelligence analysts....

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... CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CNN, NYT.
"They have redefined General news."

Now we're getting somewhere. Your debating at least

Not sure I ever threatened to quit. Did I? I only said "is that how it works here?" Not the same.

Dude, I don't know what you beleive. And what I said was.

There is plenty of information (we've tossed some of it about) that clearly shows that at the very least, Bush & Co was presented with significant information to indicate that they exsisted. Now you may say "he cherry picked", "he was too hawkish", "the intel didn't justify the action" or whatever else, but my point was clear that BUSH DID NOT MANUFACTURE THE EVIDENCE (i.e. LIE) he used to base his fundemental decision on.

Whether you think he should have came to those conclusions or not is one thing, but the fact is, he based his justification on information he was presented by his intelligence sources. He wasn't the only one who got dupped. Even Tenet admits everyone was shocked.

So yeah, IMO if you still are one of those strict "Bush lied about WMD" folks after all the recent revelations, then yeah. You're not playing with a full deck, are uniformed (which you obviously aren't) OR you have another adgenda. Again speaking directly to the "fabricated evidence" crowd.

Again.............. I have no idea what you believe and don't beleive so if you felt insulted. I don't feel guilty about it.


Dissenting and differing views are common in those things. Personally, I think it makes a good case that they do have it and I can see how they came to the conclusions they did. But you're right. It's a POS report (as we now know). Me or you may have came to different conclusions based on it, but it clearly debunks the overall "BUSH LIED ABOUT WMD" myth.

Again, None of it mattered to me. I justified the action based strictly on the UN Weapons and Ceasefire transgressions.

Please show us a link to demonstrate the slightest integrity among this wild claims you throw about. Any reasonable debater would, and PC already has you completely awash in your own disinformation campaign.

"Dude", you arent making much sense to be frank.

Start with elab'rating on your last ridiculous statement and go from there. You are after all the noob here and should start out giving us a sense that you know WTF you are even talking about.

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Isoroku Yamamoto's quote following the attack on Pearl Harbor

Okay, of the Bush voter personae, Ill put you in the "better than the other guy", " however willfully ignorant" category. Cool...

Um...since you can tell us what the alternative would be like, would it involve national disaster on par with what Bush has wrought?? If yes, then how so??

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Isoroku Yamamoto's quote following the attack on Pearl Harbor

You're right, it only you guys that know what your talking about. Twist whatever I said around, but it's fairly plainly written and if you have the slightest understanding of things, you'd have been able to follow it. IF you disagree, then disagree, but don't play that "I don't even know WTF your saying man" BS.

1441 - 687 - 679 figure it out yourself.

National disaster? help, help the sky is falling......