Lawmakers Call for Proof of Progress by Fall - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

Patriot_in_NY · #21 05-09-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

that's an assanine stretch, and not what he was saying at all... in fact, quite the opposite...

but then, here is a shining example of exactly what we've come to expect from you, our strawman champion...

Not for nothing from the point of view of an outsider, you certianly do come accross as someone that is rooting for us to lose. That may not be the case, but that's is often the way it appears.

I guess only you know for sure.

All_Around_Brown · #22 05-09-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot_in_NY

Not for nothing from the point of view of an outsider, you certianly do come accross as someone that is rooting for us to lose. That may not be the case, but that's is often the way it appears.

I guess only you know for sure.

Maybe then an outsider can tell us what it means to lose? And how do you know we havent already lost?

I doubt many of the cons in here can even describe what it may be like to win at this point.

win is what? An Iranian backed Shia puppet government? That is probably the closest thing to victory as we can expect at this point. Or, everyone (shia and sunni) just kisses each other and forget about 1400 years of conflict. If you think this, then you need to have your head checked.

Any takers want to tell us what victory in Iraq would look like? Please step right up.

Patriot_in_NY · #23 05-09-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All_Around_Brown

Any takers want to tell us what victory in Iraq would look like? Please step right up.

No, but I sure can tell you what defeat will look like. It's called genocide. My guess is 1-2 million will die, perhaps more.

Look, I've got real problems with the way this war was fought (not why it was fought). The point is, you just want to point and say "see, I told you so......." which gets us nowhere.

We (as a country) don't have the stomach for what it would take to win. Your enemies do though. Remember that, they don't have the ability to do so.

A good start would be to Napalm every opium poppy field in Afghanistan, but wait........ where would we then go to quench our inexhaustible appetite for heroin

. It would piss everyone of (including the puppet gov in there), but that is the way to SURE victory in that part of the world.

It's pretty complicated, but it is probably winnable somehow. EVERYONE has a point of capitulation. We're just not willing to "go there", and that's probably not an altogether bad thing.

All_Around_Brown · #24 05-10-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot_in_NY

No, but I sure can tell you what defeat will look like. It's called genocide. My guess is 1-2 million will die, perhaps more.

Look, I've got real problems with the way this war was fought (not why it was fought). The point is, you just want to point and say "see, I told you so......." which gets us nowhere.

We (as a country) don't have the stomach for what it would take to win. Your enemies do though. Remember that, they don't have the ability to do so.

A good start would be to Napalm every opium poppy field in Afghanistan, but wait........ where would we then go to quench our inexhaustible appetite for heroin

. It would piss everyone of (including the puppet gov in there), but that is the way to SURE victory in that part of the world.

It's pretty complicated, but it is probably winnable somehow. EVERYONE has a point of capitulation. We're just not willing to "go there", and that's probably not an altogether bad thing.

Ok....understood. Anyone else want to tell us how we "win" in Iraq?

Patriot_in_NY · #25 05-10-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot_in_NY

It's pretty complicated, but it is probably winnable somehow.

Well, we've probably reached our endgame In Iraq and it may be too late, but.

Here's an interesting article I found on a milblog site COIN: The Gravity Well . Perhaps it's not the wholly the answer, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

In fact, it's possible that we are seeing some of it action right now in Anbar and Diyala provences. I'm not an expert, but I'm curious to see these recent developments. It has the hallmarks of some type of COIN Doctrine doesn't it? Whatever it is, it's dirty buisness, because it's quite obvious we're pitched in with the thugs we were fighting a year ago.

Like I said, it perhaps show some progress, but its probably to little to late. Too many people want us to lose (including many here in the US), the rest don't have the stomach for it anymore.

PressCoverage · #26 05-10-2007, 05:55 PM

tell you what.... we'll stop insinuating "told you so" when just a few of you finally admit "we were wrong about WMDs"... just once...

Patriot_in_NY · #27 05-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

tell you what.... we'll stop insinuating "told you so" when just a few of you finally admit "we were wrong about WMDs"... just once...

We, through intelligence failures that can never happen again, were wrong about WMD.

That's really not news at all. Hell, some of Saddam's General's thought they had em' . I've never given credence to the "bush lied" argument, and given the information available now, anyone that still does is just a moron (or has another agenda). It's more like Bush got "duped" like everyone else. It never mattered to me.

Okay, now reciprocate

PressCoverage · #28 05-10-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot_in_NY

We, through intelligence failures that can never happen again, were wrong about WMD.

That's really not news at all. Hell, some of Saddam's General's thought they had em' . I've never given credence to the "bush lied" argument, and given the information available now, anyone that still does is just a moron (or has another agenda). It's more like Bush got "duped" like everyone else. It never mattered to me.

Okay, now reciprocate

Two reasons i won't reciprocate...

First, you seem like a rational guy, and that's rare enough on your side of the aisle, but your capitulation alone is not enough... I'm looking for a mia culpa by a few of the most obnoxious, steadfast or pigheaded Bush propagandists... Who continue to insist Atta was in Prague, or that AQ had a direct operational relationship with Saddam, and on and on....

Second, Bush and the Bush League did lie, over and over again, and continue to do so (it's well-documented), and you essentially called me a moron because I feel that way...

Until then, chastising the "told you so" contingent really is rather curious and selective...

All_Around_Brown · #29 05-10-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot_in_NY

We, through intelligence failures that can never happen again, were wrong about WMD.

That's really not news at all. Hell, some of Saddam's General's thought they had em' . I've never given credence to the "bush lied" argument, and given the information available now, anyone that still does is just a moron (or has another agenda). It's more like Bush got "duped" like everyone else. It never mattered to me.

Okay, now reciprocate

According to Tenets new book, the intel was wrong, to a point. They were right that Saddam was years away from having a nuke capability, and somehow the Bush team used that BIG LIE to get the vast majority, the mainstream, on board.

That was a LIE and it is not enough to just generalize about WMD when the administration was making a case that the smoking gun was going to be a mushroom cloud. Its not a few people who still think this was a BIG LIE...there are CIA assets whose careers have been ruined over it...possibly, no quite likely jeopardizing our safety even further.

Thats water under the bridge though. That little big lie has ended up responsible for hundreds of thousands dead to date and potentially 1-2 million more, as you said.

And Bush has the sack to think that history will look kindly on his criminal administration?

Patriot_in_NY · #30 05-10-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

Two reasons i won't reciprocate...

I knew you wouldn't

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

First, you seem like a rational guy, and that's rare enough on your side of the aisle, but your capitulation alone is not enough... I'm looking for a mia culpa by a few of the most obnoxious, steadfast or pigheaded Bush propagandists... Who continue to insist Atta was in Prague, or that AQ had a direct operational relationship with Saddam, and on and on....

Second, Bush and the Bush League did lie, over and over again, and continue to do so (it's well-documented), and you essentially called me a moron because I feel that way...

It is? I didn't call anyone specifically a moron either. But, if the shoe fits, by all means wear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

Until then, chastising the "told you so" contingent really is rather curious and selective...

You were right, I'm actually quite rational, and if you wanna debate stuff......... It's all I'd ever ask in return from you. A lot of you don't seem to care about any of that though. It should be about the "strength of your argument" and the facts to back it up, not the wittest quip or insult you think of.

If that's what this forum is all about, the we'll just hurl insults at each other, and what a fine time we'll have too.

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