Real World

Something different to discuss.


I've been loosely following the election in France, and am surprised, although not shockingly, that France is leaning toward electing a more consertvative candidate. Obviously, what we consider right/left, or liberal/conservative, doesn't transalte identically to what call the same over there. France is very much a socialist country. It's work week, welfare system, and overall ideology is designed toward an absolute compassion and pacificism of sorts. My guess is Patters would know more of the specifics of their system and culture. At any rate, Sarkozy, the right/conservative candidate, has been described as a French Reagan. I'm not quite sure what that means exactly, but what would his election mean to both France, and Europe altogether? Royal, a female, and the left/socialist candidate is 9% behind in the polls. I've read where the people in France have tired of immigration, and of the size, and magnitude of their welfare system. I've read where people can stay on unemployment for a couple of years there.

Here's a brief description of the two:

Key policy differences between candidates Sarkozy and Royal
The Associated PressPublished: May 4, 2007


Conservative Nicolas Sarkozy and Socialist Segolene Royal go head to head for the French presidency on Sunday. Here is a glance at some of their key policy differences.

NICOLAS SARKOZY

ECONOMY: Would cut taxes and payroll fees, and loosen hiring and firing rules. Though generally pro-market, also supports state role in industry, including Airbus and strategic energy giants.

35-HOUR WORKWEEK: Says it's not creating jobs as intended but would not abolish it. Wants to make overtime pay tax-free to encourage people to work more, and earn more.

EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION: Would postpone controversial issues in favor of adopting a simpler constitution by 2009, without another referendum. First trip as president would be to Brussels and Germany for talks on EU's future.


RELATIONS WITH UNITED STATES: Embraces moniker "Sarko the American" and gladly shook hands with President Bush. Admires American "energy" and opportunity — but calls Iraq war a mistake.

CRIME AND TROUBLED SUBURBS: Would prosecute 16- and 17-year-olds as adults. Wants a "Marshall Plan" for the poor suburbs, hit by riots in 2005, to get youth in jobs or training programs.

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SEGOLENE ROYAL

ECONOMY: Would raise the monthly minimum wage and create new taxes. Proposes state bailout of Airbus and other state intervention to shore up French companies.

35-HOUR WORKWEEK: Says it has had benefits and drawbacks. Would preserve it but wants talks to fix its problems and generalize it where possible.

EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION: Wants to negotiate a new treaty and subject it to a referendum. Says the European Union should ensure Europeans across-the-board social protections. First trip would be to Germany to discuss Europe.

RELATIONS WITH UNITED STATES: Calls the Iraq war a "catastrophe" but says she doesn't confuse the Bush administration and its policies with the United States as a whole.

CRIME AND TROUBLED SUBURBS: Would create neighborhood police forces and boost social programs for poor districts. Proposes boot camp for juvenile delinquents and holding parents more responsible for young troublemakers.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...tes-Glance.php

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Here's a little better description of each candidates policies. I'm not sure there is all that much difference between their goals, nothing tremendously drastic anyway.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6357899.stm

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

maverick4

Europe is going down either way. There is going to be a huge culture war in Europe over the next 15 years.

Harry Boy

The "peacenic sensitive liberals" over there are already threating violence if the conservative gets elected.
The pie in the face syndrome, liberals can be vicious bastards if you don't agrre with them and if you dare to oppose them.

News Today:
PARIS (Reuters) - Socialist opponent Segolene Royal said on Friday that France risks violence and brutality if her opponent right-winger Nicolas Sarkozy wins Sunday's presidential election.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

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Use A Lot Of Toilet Paper
Muslims Love Democrats
Poor Imus (done in by racists)

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

BelichickFan

And we aren't that far behind.

DarrylS

Echoing Belichickfan's sentiment, I think it has already started..

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"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

Real World

In what sense mav? Do you think it's because of immigrant assimilation, or lack there of, or the massive expansion of the EU, and the different ideologies being mixed together?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

We're toast already.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

I've said before that there's no country more like the U.S. than France. It's quite a conservative country. It has fewer unions than the U.S. (though the farmer's have a strong union), a powerful right-wing (as strong as ours), and it has similar kinds of social problems. For its size, I believe it's the leading agricultural country in the world and also leads in many other industries. It does some things better than us, like it's health care, and some things worse, like its policies towards the poor and immigrants.

Its constitution is more dictatorial than ours. Most police are nationalized and the government can intercede directly in regional rights. But, the response to that is that the people will take to the streets, shut down transportation, and still have a lot of popular support. That's just how their democracy works, but overall France is awfully similar to us. Perhaps that's why we find them so difficult.

All the polls show Sarkozy will win the election, although the right-wing Le Pen called for his supporters to stay home. The French like Sarkozy because he's a strong leader, sort of like a conservative Mitterand. That said, if he goes too far, the French will face national strikes, and push him back to a more moderate course.

Patriot_in_NY

Not only that, there are breeding (actually not breeding) themselves to into oblivion. check out these REPLACEMENT FERTILITY RATES, which is essentially an indicator of population growth (i.e. anything under 2.1 is a dying population). Add to that, all the immigrants pouring in, due to their "open border" mentality, and what you have is a Europe that won't even resemble itself in another 1-2 generations.

btw, the US isn't faring a whole lot better with a replacement rate of 2.1 and millions of undocumented non-american pouring in annually