All_Around_Brown

Is this why we are seeing another rise on oil prices??? Hmmmmm...probably has a little to do with it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/wa...TXHGhsY6WwHgrQ

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Real World

This is the crap that pisses me off about politicians.

A few nights after he resigned his post as secretary of state two years ago, Colin L. Powell answered a ring at his front door. Standing outside was Prince Bandar, then Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States, with a 1995 Jaguar. Mr. Powell’s wife, Alma, had once mentioned that she missed their 1995 Jaguar, which she and her husband had traded in. Prince Bandar had filed that information away, and presented the Powells that night with an identical, 10-year-old model. The Powells kept the car — a gift that the State Department said was legal — but recently traded it away.


Like I've said 1,000 times in this forum, nevermind in life, just because you can do something, does it mean you should? Fine, accepting the car was "legal", but was it ethical? I'd have declined were I in a similar position. Now, mind you, i happen to think highly of CP like most do, but that bothers me. What's worse is this is the first I'd ever heard of him being given a car, and it makes me wonder how much crap these pols get (both sides of the isle mind you) that we never hear of. This is why Joe Taxpayer gets fukced. If I ran a newspaper, this type of ***** would have it's own section. I'd print every little freebee these clowns get from top to bottom. Be it a power tool, fight tickets, or a fricken 1995 Jaguar. It might be legal, but it's unethical in my eyes.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

All_Around_Brown

You must be just thrilled about the Jack Abramoff Bob Ney Duke Cunningham Safavian etc etc etc scandals then.

Heck, is Powell even in the same sphere? I doubt it.

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Real World

Oh, the more azzwipes that go to jail the better. The most upset I've been in the last 10 years over politics was when that Jefferson guy got caught with $90k in his freezer, and the feds raided his office. It wasn't Jefferson that upset me, it was the reaction of Dems and Repubs on TV. Here are these two groups who argue over the weather, simply to take a contrarian view, but yet they run to each others side in criticizing thefed for raiding a fellow criminals office. Why? cuz they were ALL *****ting themselves that htey would be next. I'd never seen these jokers agree on anyhting so adamantly. I saw Dennis Hastert citing their contitutional protections. HA! What loser fraud criminals they all are. What's sad though is how so many never think that their side is guilty. They ALL do it. At least 80% are crooked.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

All_Around_Brown

My point was simply as head of the joint chiefs, Im not sure Powell is in the same class as pols. I get your point though and I agree. The pols are corrupt, and it needs to stop.

More to the point though, what about Prince Bandar and his rogue dealings with the Bush WH backdoor?

He is a sleaze and the Saudi king is leaning further to the wahhabi right then ever before to save his own arse. When push comes to shove, an assasination here and there in the ME now and you could be looking at the Islamic crescent spilling out all over the place.

Then we are truly blackmailed.

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Real World

Back door dealings have been a mainstay in politics for centuries. Some work, as they might avoid war, or secure the release of hostages persay, while others result in twisted policies and that only serve to aid the side that is less naive. If by rogue dealings your refering to aiding us in disarming Lybia peacefully, then I'm all for it. However, if you mean possible manipulation of oil prices to aid an incumbent presidents re-election campaign, then I am certainly against it. Basically, it would always come down to what the "rogue" dealings regard.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

All_Around_Brown

Fair enough. But this guy being in Bushs pocket now is threatening our relationship with the actual ruler of SA (who I dont trust either) spells trouble to me.

Maybe you dont see it that way but to me, Im guessing Saudi will have a new leadership within a decade (and that wont be good), sooner if things really spiral out of contrrol with Iran.

The consequences of playing both sides off on each other is coming to a head IMO. It cannot be sustained.

Sooner or later, we must choose. Sunni or Shia. Take your pick.

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Real World

OK, but so many criticize Iraq by saying we should have invaded Saudi Arabia, or criticize Afghanistan by saying we should have invaded the Paki's. Are you saying that we may be weakening the current leadership, which might result in a more radical group taking hold? Well, if so, then you have to be willing to concede that the leadership of the nations in question are under a restricted means of appeasement when it comes to US demands. One can't say that we're underming the SA govt now, which risks a more radical group taking over only when it suits them, while previously making the argument that SA isn't doing enough, while not taking their risks into consideration. I've been saying this in here since I joined. That the governments in these regions are walking on a slippery slope, and that our demands have to be balanced with respect to the reality of their sociatal structure. People can't have it both ways. Remember now, I don't trust the Saudi's as far as I could throw them. I like Mushareff though. I'm continuously impressed with what he attempts to do under the circumstances. The Saudi's I'm far more skeptical of. However, that country doesn't have the mixed bag of moderates and radicals like Pakistan does. SA is hard core Wahabi.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897