Holy Diver

I dare y'all to beat this beauty by The President of the United Sates:

“Last November, the American people said they were frustrated and wanted a change in our strategy in Iraq. I listened. Today, General David Petraeus is carrying out a strategy that is dramatically different from our previous course. The American people did not vote for failure, and that is precisely what the Democratic leadership’s bill would guarantee.”

he is living in a different world than EVERYONE.....If people weren't dying, this would be hilarious.

Pujo

Even if he thinks the Democrats represent failure, that is who the people voted for, no?

Fogbuster

And have you actually sat down and seriously contemplated what would happen in Iraq if the U.S. just pulls up stakes and leaves tomorrow?? My guess is that there would be two to ten times MORE violence.

Remember Vietnam. Remember the boat people. Remember the killing fields of Cambodia, one third of the population disappeared (until they found their skeletons).


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PressCoverage

your "guess", indeed... we've all come to take your guesses with about as much validity as the president's...

please stop acting like our stuck-in-the-mud presence there is the only thing holding the finger in the dike... the Iraqis want us out, almost 85% of them... we f_cked that country up for 200 years... as was predicted...

regardless of the potential increase in violence there if we left, it would still be about 1/10th the carnage in central africa... and you Loyal Bushies are dead set against stemming that violence, aren't you?

odd "Christianity" there...

Fogbuster

1. Thanks for the compliment on validity.

2. 85%?? Don't know whom you're talking about, or under what circumstances they would say such a thing, or how the question was contexted, but your assertion is just spin, nothing more.

3. Oh, that's right, you want to start your own war when this one's still raging; in fact, you want to PULL OUT of this war and go into a new one. You couldn't write a better prescription for a failure if you tried.

4. Oh, and by the way: ALL THE DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR GOING INTO IRAQ even when Bush said it would take years, it would be long, it would be tough, and the results would not show up immediately. ALL THE DEMS still voted for it. Only now, when the difficulties have reached their peak, do the faint of heart, the half-hearted, those without resolve, wish to pull out. Shame on anyone who would do that.

Remember Vietnam. Remember the boat people. Remember the killing fields of Cambodia. Don't waste the epiphany that NYTimes reporter had; it's still very much in play today.


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PressCoverage

gawd, your posts always sound like pretentious sermons, with some goofy zinger at the end to whip the gullible flock into a frenzy...

"ALL the Dems" is yet another lie propagated by our most out-of-touch posters... population: YOU...

here's the list of Congressmen and Senators who voted against the Iraq resolution in 2002.... notice the "D" next to most of their names, if you're able:

Neil Abercrombie (D-HI 1st)
Tom Allen (D-ME 11st)
Joe Baca (D-CA 42nd)
Brian Baird (D-WA 3th)
John Baldacci (D-ME 2nd)
Tammy Baldwin (D-WI 2nd)
Xavier Becerra (D-CA 30th)
Earl Blumenauer (D-OR 3rd)
David Bonoir (D-MI 10th)
Robert Brady (D-PA 1st)
Corrine Brown (D-FL 3rd)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH 13th)
Lois Capps (D-CA 22nd)
Michael E. Capuano (D-MA 8th)
Ben Cardin (D-MD 3rd)
Julia Carson (D-IN 10th)
William Lacy Clay, Jr. (D-MO 1st)
Eva Clayton (D-NC 1st)
James Clyburn (D-SC 6st)
Gary Condit (D-CA 18th)
John Conyers (D-MI 14st)
Jerry Costello (D-IL 12th)
William Coyne (D-PA 14th)
Elijah Cummings (D-MD 7st)
Susan Davis (D-CA 49th)
Danny K. Davis (D-IL 7th)
Peter DeFazio (D-OR 4th)
Diana DeGette (D-CO 1st)
William Delahunt (D-MA 10th)
Rosa DeLauro (D-CT 3rd)
John Dingell (D-MI) 15th
Lloyd Doggett (D-TX 25th)
Mike Doyle (D-PA 18th)
John James Duncan, Jr. (R-TN 2nd)
Anna Eshoo (D-CA 14th)
Lane Evans (D-IL 17th)
Sam Farr (D-CA 17th)
Chaka Fattah (D-PA 2nd)
Bob Filner (D-CA 50th)
Barney Frank (D-MA 4th)
Charlie Gonzalez (D-TX 20th)
Luis Gutierrez (D-IL 4th)
Alcee Hastings (D-FL 23rd)
Earl F. Hilliard (D-AL 7th)
Maurice Hinchey (D-NY 22nd)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX 15th)
Rush Holt (D-NJ 12th)
Mike Honda (D-CA 15th)
Darlene Hooley (D-OR 5th)
John Hostettler (R-IN 8th)
Amo Houghton (R-NY 29th)
Jay Inslee (D-WA 1st)
Jesse Jackson, Jr. (D-IL 2nd)
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX 18th)
Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX 30th)
Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH 11th)
Marcy Kaptur (D-OH 9th)
Dale E. Kildee (D-MI 5th)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI 13th)
Jerry Kleczka (D-WI 4th)
Dennis Kucinich (D-OH 10th)
John LaFalce (D-NY 29th)
James R. Langevin (D-RI 2nd)
Rick Larsen (D - WA 2nd)
John Larson (D-CT 1st)
Jim Leach (R-IA 1st)
Barbara Lee (D-CA 9th)
Sander Levin (D - MI 12th)
John Lewis (D-GA 5th)
William Lipinski (D-IL 3rd)
Zoe Lofgren (D-CA 16th)
James H. Maloney (D-CT 5th)
Robert Matsui (D-CA 5th)
Karen McCarthy (D-MO 3rd)
Betty McCollum (D-MN 4th)
Jim McDermott (D-WA 7th)
James McGovern (D-MA 3rd)
Cynthia McKinney (D-GA 4th)
Carrie P. Meek (D-FL 17th)
Gregory W. Meeks (D-NY 6th)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ 6th)
Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-CA 37th)
George Miller (D-CA 7th)
Alan Mollohan (D - WV 1st)
Jim Moran (D-VA 8th)
Connie Morella (R-MD 8th)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY 8th)
Grace Napolitano (D-CA 34th)
Richard E. Neal (D-MA 2nd)
James Oberstar (D-MN 8th)
David Obey (D-WI7th)
John Olver (D-MA 1st)
Major Owens (D-NY 11th)
Frank Pallone (D-NJ 6th)
Ed Pastor (D-AZ 2nd)
Ron Paul (R-TX 14th)
Donald Payne (D-NJ 10th)
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA 8th)
David Price (D-NC 4th)
Nick Rahall (D-WV 3rd)
Charles Rangel (D-NY 15th)
Silvestre Reyes (D-TX 16th)
Lynn Nancy Rivers (D-MI 13th)
Ciro Rodriguez (D-TX 23rd)
Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-CA 33rd)
Bobby Rush (D-IL 1st)
Martin Olav Sabo (D-MN 5th)
Loretta Sanchez (D-CA 46th)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT At Large)
Thomas C. Sawyer (D-OH 13th)
Janice D. Schakowsky (D-IL 9th)
Robert C. Scott (D-VA 3rd)
José E. Serrano (D-NY 16th
Louise Slaughter (D-NY 28th)
Vic Snyder (D-AR 2nd)
Hilda Solis (D-CA 31st)
Pete Stark (D-CA 13th)
Ted Strickland (D-OH 6th)
Bart Stupak (D-MI 1st)
Mike Thompson (D-CA 1st)
Bennie Thompson (D-MS 2nd)
John Tierney (D-MA 6th)
Edolphus Towns (D-NY 10th)
Mark Udall (D-CO 2nd)
Tom Udall (D-NM 3rd)
Nydia Velazquez (D-NY 12th)
Peter Visclosky (D-IN 1st)
Maxine Waters (D-CA 35th)
Diane Watson (D-CA 32nd)
Mel Watt (D-NC 12th)
Lynn Woolsey (D-CA 6th)
David Wu (D-OR 1st

SENATORS:

Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Lincoln Chafee (R-RI)
Jon Corzine (D-NJ)
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Mark Dayton (D-MN)
Dick Durbin (D-IL)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Bob Graham (D-FL)
Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
Jim Jeffords (I-VT)
Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Patty Murray (D-WA)
Jack Reed (D-RI)
Paul Sarbanes (D-MD)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Paul Wellstone (D-MN)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

any other brilliance to offer, Mr. Robertson?

scout

What is the difference if we pull out tomorrow or we pull out in the next century? The only difference is, that there will be more dead American soldiers if we delay pulling out.

Holy Diver

I don't think you understand that there is no talking point for such a valid argument....I'll make one up by using my "rovinator 2000".....

Inputting valid statement.....

(insert computer sounds)

"Our American soldiers serve at the pleasure of the president"

wistahpatsfan

Ah yessss........
The Domino Theory.
How's that workin out for Westmoreland and McNamara?

Fogbuster

I am not Pat Robertson. Robertson doesn't even like Unificationists. But if I close my eyes after reading one of your posts, I can see ol' Vlad Lenin sitting behind his trusty keyboard, stomping out the vitriol and spin that you churn.


And, oh, so sorry, it wasn't *all* Dems who voted to use force in Iraq, it was only:

In the House, the vote was 296-133 in favor of using force, while in the Senate, the vote was 77-23 in favor.

It's notable that a total of 29 Democrat Senators, including Hillary, John Kerry, John Edwards, Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Charles Shumer, Tom Daschle (Senate Democrat Minority Leader), Joseph Biden, Dianne Feinstein, Tom Harkin, Max Cleland are all among 371 others in Congress who are not on your list because they DID vote for force. Funny how when people want to run for president, they somehow don't want to look soft. But when they are not running for election they all of a sudden feel so peaceful and want to pass the bong pipe around.

House Voting for:

* Gary Ackerman (D-NY 5th)
* Robert Aderholt (R-AL 4th)
* Todd Akin (R-MO 2nd)
* Rob Andrews (D-NJ 1st)
* Dick Armey (R-TX 26th)
* Spencer Bachus (R-AL 6th)
* Richard Baker (politician) (R-LA 6th)
* Cass Ballenger (R-NC 10th)
* Jim Barcia (D-MI 5th)
* Bob Barr (R-GA 7th)
* Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD 6th)
* Joe Barton (R-TX 6th)
* Charlie Bass (R-NH 2nd)
* Ken Bentsen (D-TX 25th)
* Doug Bereuter (R-NE 1st)
* Shelley Berkley (D-NV 1st)
* Howard Berman (D-CA 26th)
* Marion Berry (D-AR 1st)
* Judy Biggert (R-IL 13th)
* Michael Bilirakis (R-FL 9th)
* Sanford Bishop (D-GA 2nd)
* Rod Blagojevich (D-IL 5th)
* Roy Blunt (R-MO 7th)
* Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY 24th)
* John Boehner (R-OH) 8th
* Henry Bonilla (R-TX 23nd)
* Mary Bono (R-CA 45th)
* John Boozman (R-AR 3rd)
* Bob Borski (D-PA 3rd)
* Leonard Boswell (D-IA 3rd)
* Richard Boucher (D-VA 9th)
* Allen Boyd (D-FL 2nd)
* Kevin Brady (R-TX 8th)
* Henry E. Brown, Jr. (R-SC 1st)
* Ed Bryant (R-TN 7th)
* Richard Burr (R-NC 5th)
* Dan Burton (R-IN 6th)
* Steve Buyer (R-IN 5th)
* Sonny Callahan (R-AL 1st)
* Ken Calvert (R-CA 43rd)
* David Lee Camp (R-MI 4th)
* Chris Cannon (R-UT 3rd)
* Eric Cantor (R-VA 7th)
* Shelley Moore Capito (R-WA 2nd)
* Brad Carson (D-OK 2nd)
* Michael N. Castle (R-DE At Large)
* Steve Chabot (R-OH 1st)
* Saxby Chambliss (R-GA 8th)
* Bob Clement (D-TN 5th)
* Howard Coble (R-NC 6th)
* Mac Collins (R-GA 3rd)
* Larry Combest (R-TX 19th)
* John Cooksey (R-LA 5th)
* Chris Cox (R-CA 47th)
* Robert Cramer (D-AL 5th)
* Philip Crane (D-IL 8th)
* Ander Crenshaw (R-FL 4th)
* Joseph Crowley (D-NY 7th)
* Barbara Cubin (R-WY At Large)
* John Culberson (R-TX 7th)
* Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-CA 51st)
* Jim Davis (D-FL 11th)
* Jo Ann Davis (R-VA 1st
* Tom Davis (R-VA 11th)
* Nathan Deal (R-GA 9th)
* Tom DeLay (R-TX 22nd)
* Jim DeMint (R-SC 4th)
* Peter Deutsch (D-FL 20th)
* Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL 21st)
* Norman Dicks (D-WA 6th)
* Cal Dooley (D-CA 20th)
* John Doolittle (R-CA 4th)
* David Dreier (R-CA 28th)
* Jennifer Dunn (R-WA 8th)
* Chet Edwards (D-TX 11th)
* Vernon Ehlers (R-MI 3rd)
* Robert Ehrlich (R-MD 2nd)
* Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO 8th)
* Eliot L. Engel (D-NY 17th)
* Phil English (R-PA 21th)
* Bob Etheridge (D-NC 2nd)
* Terry Everett (R-AL 2nd)
* Mike Ferguson (R-NJ 7th)
* Jeff Flake (R-AZ 1st)
* Ernie Fletcher (R-KY 6th)
* Mark Foley (R-FL 16th)
* Randy Forbes (R-VA 4th)
* Harold Ford (D-TN 9th)
* Vito Fossella (R-NY 13th)
* Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ 11th)
* Martin Frost (D-TX 26th)
* Elton Gallegly (R-CA 23rd)
* Greg Ganske (R-IA 4th)
* George Gekas (R-PA 17th)
* Dick Gephardt (D-MO 3rd)
* Jim Gibbons (R-NV 2nd)
* Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD 1st)
* Paul Gillmor (R-OH 5th)
* Benjamin Gilman (R-NY 22nd)

* Virgil Goode (R-VA 5th)
* Bob Goodlatte (R-VA 6th)
* Bart Gordon (D-TN 6st)
* Porter Goss (R-FL 14th)
* Lindsey Graham (R-SC 3rd)
* Kay Granger (R-TX12th)
* Sam Graves (R-MO 6th)
* Gene Green (D-TX 29th)
* Mark Green (R-WI 8th)
* James Greenwood (R-PA 8th)
* Felix Grucci (R-NY 1st)
* Gil Gutknecht (R-MN 1st)
* Ralph Hall (R-TX 4th)
* James V. Hansen (R-UT 1st)
* Jane Harman (D-CA 36th)
* Melissa Hart (D-PA 4th)
* Dennis Hastert (R-IL 14th)
* Doc Hastings (R-WA 4th)
* Robin Hayes (R-NC 8th)
* J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ 6th)
* Joel Hefley (R-CO 5th)
* Wally Herger (R-CA 2nd)
* Baron Hill (D-IN 9th)
* Van Hilleary (R-TN 4th)
* Dave Hobson (R-OH 7th)
* Joe Hoeffel (D-PA 4th)
* Pete Hoekstra (R-MI 2nd)
* Tim Holden (D-PA 6th)
* Steve Horn (R-CA 38th)
* Steny Hoyer (D-MD 5th)
* Kenny Hulshof (R-MO 9th)
* Duncan Hunter (R-CA 52nd)
* Henry Hyde (R-IL 6th)
* Johnny Isakson (R-GA 6th)
* Steve Israel (D-NY 2nd)
* Darrell Issa (R-CA 48th)
* Ernest J. Istook (R-OK 5th)
* William Jefferson (D-LA 2nd)
* William Jenkins (R-TN 1st)
* Chris John (D-LA 7th)
* Nancy Johnson (R-CT 6th)
* Timothy V. Johnson (R-IL 15th)
* Sam Johnson (R-TX 3rd)
* Walter Jones (R-NC) 3rd)
* Paul Kanjorski (D-PA 11th)
* Ric Keller (R-FL 8th)
* Sue Kelly (R-NY 19th)
* Mark Kennedy (R-MN 2nd)
* Patrick J. Kennedy (D-RI 1st)
* Brian D. Kerns (R-IN 7th)
* Ron Kind (D-WI 3rd)
* Peter King (R-NY 3rd)
* Jack Kingston (R-GA 1st)
* Mark Steven Kirk (R-IL 10th)
* Joe Knollenberg (R-MI 9th)
* Jim Kolbe (R-AZ 5th)
* Ray LaHood (R-IL 18th)
* Nick Lampson (D-TX 11th)
* Tom Lantos (D-CA 12th)
* Tom Latham (R-IA 5th)
* Steve LaTourette (R-OH 14th)
* Jerry Lewis (R-CA 40th)
* Ron Lewis (R-KY 2nd)
* John Linder (R-GA 11th)
* Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ 2nd)
* Nita Lowey (D-NY 18th)
* Ken Lucas (D-KY 4th)
* Frank Lucas (R-OK 3rd)
* William Luther (R-MN 6th)
* Steve Lynch (D-MA 9th)
* Carolyn Maloney (D-NY 14th)
* Donald Manzullo (R-IL 16th)
* Ed Markey (D-MA 7th)
* Frank Mascara (D-PA 20th)
* Jim Matheson (D-UT 2nd)
* Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY 4th)
* Jim McCrery (R-LA 4th)
* John McHugh (R-NY 23rd)
* Scott McInnis (R-CO 3rd)
* Mike McIntyre (D-NC 7th)
* Howard McKeon (R-CA 25th)
* Michael McNulty (D-NY 21th)
* Martin T. Meehan (D-MA 5th)
* John Mica (R-FL 7th)
* Dan Miller (R-FL 13th)
* Gary Miller (R-CA 41st)
* Jeff Miller (R-FL 1st)
* Dennis Moore (D-KS 3rd)
* Jerry Moran (R-KS 1st)
* John Murtha (D-PA 12th)
* Sue Myrick (R-NC 9th)
* George Nethercutt (R-WA 5th)
* Bob Ney (R-OH 18th)
* Anne Northup (R-KY 3rd)
* Charlie Norwood (R-GA 10th)
* Jim Nussle (R-IA 2nd)
* Tom Osborne (R-NE 3rd)
Plus 100 more not posted due to space limits on this server.


77 Senators voted in favor of the resolution:

* Wayne Allard (R-CO)
* George Allen (R-VA)
* Max Baucus (D-MT)
* Evan Bayh (D-IN)
* Bob Bennett (R-UT)
* Joe Biden (D-DE)
* Kit Bond (R-MO)
* John Breaux (D-LA)
* Sam Brownback (R-KS)
* Jim Bunning (R-KY)
* Conrad Burns (R-MT)
* Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-CO)
* Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
* Jean Carnahan (D-MO)
* Tom Carper (D-DE)
* Max Cleland (D-GA)
* Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
* Thad Cochran (R-MS)
* Susan Collins (R-ME)
* Larry Craig (R-ID)
* Mike Crapo (R-ID)
* Tom Daschle (D-SD)
* Mike DeWine (R-OH)
* Christopher Dodd (D-CT)
* Pete Domenici (R-NM)
* Byron Dorgan (D-ND)
* John Edwards (D-NC)
* John Ensign (R-NV)
* Mike Enzi (R-WY)
* Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
* Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL)
* Bill Frist (R-TN)
* Phil Gramm (R-TX)
* Chuck Grassley (R-IA)
* Judd Gregg (R-NH)
* Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
* Tom Harkin (D-IA)
* Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
* Jesse Helms (R-NC)

* Fritz Hollings (D-SC)
* Tim Hutchinson (R-AR)
* Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)
* James Inhofe (R-OK)
* Tim Johnson(D-SD)
* John Kerry (D-MA)
* Herb Kohl (D-WI)
* Jon Kyl (R-AZ)
* Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
* Joe Lieberman (D-CT)
* Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
* Trent Lott (R-MS)
* Richard Lugar (R-IN)
* John McCain (R-AZ)
* Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
* Zell Miller (D-GA)
* Frank Murkowski (R-AK)
* Bill Nelson (D-FL)
* Ben Nelson (D-NE)
* Don Nickles (R-OK)
* Harry Reid (D-NV)
* Pat Roberts (R-KS)
* Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
* Rick Santorum (R-PA)
* Chuck Schumer (D-NY)
* Jeff Sessions (R-AL)
* Richard Shelby (R-AL)
* Robert Smith (R-NH)
* Gordon Smith (R-OR)
* Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
* Arlen Specter (R-PA)
* Ted Stevens (R-AK)
* Craig Thomas (R-WY)
* Fred Thompson (R-TN)
* Strom Thurmond (R-SC)
* Robert Torricelli (D-NJ)
* George Voinovich (R-OH)
* John Warner (R-VA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_R...Voted_in_favor
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