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  #1  
Old 04-15-2007, 03:11 PM
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Default Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

From December 2003
Quote:
"Obviously there are differences" between Vietnam and Iraq, he says. "Every situation is unique." But in his bones, he feels the same chill. "It feels the same. I hear the same things -- about [administration charges about] not telling the good news, about cooking up a rationale for getting into the war." He sees both conflicts as beginning with deception by the U.S. government, drawing a parallel between how the Johnson administration handled the beginning of the Vietnam War and how the Bush administration touted the threat presented by Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. "I think the American people were conned into this," he says. Referring to the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, in which the Johnson administration claimed that U.S. Navy ships had been subjected to an unprovoked attack by North Vietnam, he says, "The Gulf of Tonkin and the case for WMD and terrorism is synonymous in my mind."
Likewise, he says, the goal of transforming the Middle East by imposing democracy by force reminds him of the "domino theory" in the 1960s that the United States had to win in Vietnam to prevent the rest of Southeast Asia from falling into communist hands.
And that brings him back to Wolfowitz and his neoconservative allies as the root of the problem. "I don't know where the neocons came from -- that wasn't the platform they ran on," he says. "Somehow, the neocons captured the president. They captured the vice president."
This man is a prophet. He was on Meet The Press today. When the Dems take back the WH, he must be on the A list as the new Sec Def or "War Czar" if there comes to be one.
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2007, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

gotta love how deniers insist Vietnam and Iraq are enitrely different because of obvious terrain and technology differences... completely and purposely ignoring the profound geopolitical and ideological similarities... which are undeniable...

it's really rather laughable how pathetic Loyal Bushies have become in their stretches of logic, excuse-making and beligerant denial to admit the failure of their doomed administration of choice...
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... CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CNN, NYT.
"They have redefined General news."


"How is the world ruled and how do wars start?
Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read."

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Old 04-15-2007, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

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Originally Posted by PressCoverage View Post
gotta love how deniers insist Vietnam and Iraq are enitrely different because of obvious terrain and technology differences... completely and purposely ignoring the profound geopolitical and ideological similarities... which are undeniable...

it's really rather laughable how pathetic Loyal Bushies have become in their stretches of logic, excuse-making and beligerant denial to admit the failure of their doomed administration of choice...

I wouldn't gloat too much Press.

In the end the "victory" of history's damnation of the Neocon vision of foreign policy has come at a tragic cost. Lives lost and the irreparable damage to the nation's reputation will take years to repair.

I don't blame anyone...citizen or politician...for believing the "evidence" presented to justify the invasion of Iraq. I vehemently question the wisdom of those who continue to support the occupation of Iraq. Blind adherence to to this failed strategy in the face of irrefutable evidence is illogical. To continue to lose men and spend money in the face of utter failure is not just foolish...it is criminal.

Be comforted in knowing that we who question this strategy do so in the firm knowledge that daily events in the Middle East prove our point everyday. Try to be charitable to those who continue under the influence of the Neocon koolaid.

It is a strong brew....I prefer a cold Bud myself.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

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Originally Posted by mr3putt View Post
I wouldn't gloat too much Press.

In the end the "victory" of history's damnation of the Neocon vision of foreign policy has come at a tragic cost. Lives lost and the irreparable damage to the nation's reputation will take years to repair.

I don't blame anyone...citizen or politician...for believing the "evidence" presented to justify the invasion of Iraq. I vehemently question the wisdom of those who continue to support the occupation of Iraq. Blind adherence to to this failed strategy in the face of irrefutable evidence is illogical. To continue to lose men and spend money in the face of utter failure is not just foolish...it is criminal.

Be comforted in knowing that we who question this strategy do so in the firm knowledge that daily events in the Middle East prove our point everyday. Try to be charitable to those who continue under the influence of the Neocon koolaid.

It is a strong brew....I prefer a cold Bud myself.
charitable to them? please... these are the same people who have carried water to their heroes' lies for the past 5 years... downright nasty while doing it, also... labelling everyone around them communist, traitors, and every other dispicable lazy label they can think of after they've made excuses in the face of logic and evidence ...

they're the ones who need to be charitable... for never stopping to THINK... and for valuing loyalty over logic in the fall of 04...
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... CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CNN, NYT.
"They have redefined General news."


"How is the world ruled and how do wars start?
Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read."

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Last edited by PressCoverage; 04-15-2007 at 04:07 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-15-2007, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

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Originally Posted by PressCoverage View Post
charitable to them? please... these are the same people who have carried water to their heroes' lies for the past 5 years... downright nasty while doing it, also... labelling everyone around them communist, traitors, and every other dispicable lazy label they can think of after they've made excuses in the face of logic and evidence ...

they're the ones who need to be charitable... for never stopping to THINK... and for valuing loyalty over logic in the fall of 04...
I see your point Press...but

Hating them for what they believe will only serve the cause of those who would polarize and divide the Nation. Even the cement headed yahoos dwelling deep in the trailer parks of Middle America need to be informed as best as possible that the "truth" about things is not the exclusive domain of the White House or Fox News. IMHO
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Old 04-15-2007, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

Had a long response that ended up with a server crash and lost it!

Suffice to say the charity was the Baker Hamilton recommendations. This admin is ignoring them, so they do so at their own peril politically, and our nations as well unfortunately.

They chose not to do the work necessary, and instead are directly reponsible for increased casualties and hardship for every one except the Bush oil cronies. We still will get jacked at the pump and the military families get the burden of the war.

This is the Bush legacy. Admit no mistakes. Party over country.
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Old 04-15-2007, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Around_Brown View Post
Had a long response that ended up with a server crash and lost it!

Suffice to say the charity was the Baker Hamilton recommendations. This admin is ignoring them, so they do so at their own peril politically, and our nations as well unfortunately.

They chose not to do the work necessary, and instead are directly reponsible for increased casualties and hardship for every one except the Bush oil cronies. We still will get jacked at the pump and the military families get the burden of the war.

This is the Bush legacy. Admit no mistakes. Party over country.
My charity was meant to be directed at the citizens not the administration. To George and Dick and Rummy and Wolfy...they can all develope seeping puss filled hemmoroids.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Around_Brown View Post
Had a long response that ended up with a server crash and lost it!

Suffice to say the charity was the Baker Hamilton recommendations. This admin is ignoring them, so they do so at their own peril politically, and our nations as well unfortunately.

They chose not to do the work necessary, and instead are directly reponsible for increased casualties and hardship for every one except the Bush oil cronies. We still will get jacked at the pump and the military families get the burden of the war.

This is the Bush legacy. Admit no mistakes. Party over country.
Agree, the issue that seems apparent in this Adm it that it has too many like minded people making decisions, they cannot be burdened with the process and only like the product. The outcome will be what they want it to be, without discussion. Ergo, they will continue the make the Iraq-terrorism link, as they really believe it, despite about 70% of the american people do not. If they made this decision in a democratic fashion, things would not be what they are right now.
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2007, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

I have to disagree with Gen. Zinni.

Iraq will prove to be far worse in the long-term for the United States.

There was no global religious component to the Vietnam conflict.

This one will affect us, our children our grandchildren, etc. for centuries.

All because of a President ignorant of the outside world.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Commander Zinni: Iraq and Vietnam "Feel The Same"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3putt View Post
I wouldn't gloat too much Press.

In the end the "victory" of history's damnation of the Neocon vision of foreign policy has come at a tragic cost. Lives lost and the irreparable damage to the nation's reputation will take years to repair.

I don't blame anyone...citizen or politician...for believing the "evidence" presented to justify the invasion of Iraq. I vehemently question the wisdom of those who continue to support the occupation of Iraq. Blind adherence to to this failed strategy in the face of irrefutable evidence is illogical. To continue to lose men and spend money in the face of utter failure is not just foolish...it is criminal.

Be comforted in knowing that we who question this strategy do so in the firm knowledge that daily events in the Middle East prove our point everyday. Try to be charitable to those who continue under the influence of the Neocon koolaid.

It is a strong brew....I prefer a cold Bud myself.
The question is, are you hoping for success in Iraq, or are you hoping for failure? I can't support failure there. I hope that the government succeeds, and that our boys can come home as soon as that's possible. What gets me upset about some people, is how they are hoping, rooting for, and cherishing anything negative that comes from Iraq. I'd prefer we weren't there, but the problem is we are. It's not a great situation, but to hope for bad news, or failure, seems wrong to me. IMO anyway.
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