All_Around_Brown

OMG Fogbuster, the Link YOU provided doesn't even come close to this latest wild assertion. Another View from the Troops who serve

Hussein was a scumbag, for sure, but he didn't kill nearly as many non-combatants and civilians as your boy Dubya.

Donchya know theres this thing called search?

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patsfan13

Yeah right the mass graves are just an illusion thanks for that brilliant insight. And of course the car bombs killing civilians are Bush's fault and not the terrorist who murder the civilians by setting off the bombs. Brilliant lefty analysis.

Let me guess it was Churchill's fault that the Jew died in the concentration camps and all the civilians died. After all Hitler was evil but england didn't declare war everything would be fine.

And while we're at it let's blame the rape of Nanking on FDR.

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All_Around_Brown

Which mass graves??

The ones uncovered after we went in, or the ones they are filling now? Brilliant reich wing analysis. Cant accept the fact that Hussein has been surpassed by George Bush as having killed more civilians.

You sound sympathetic to al-qeada. You seem to think a failed state in Iraq is better than one ruled by, ack yes, even evil Hussein who killed up to a half million people.

ooohhh...then you go off on another one of your textbook diversion tactics. Classic neo-conservative deceptions, patsfan, I applaud you for your allegiance to utterly ridiculed doctrines of your minority.

Compare Hussein to Hitler. Perfect. Dittohead done learned well.

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PF1996

Very well said, both times. I'll also like to add that many of these "atrocities" often given by the right wing nuts as their excuse for invading and prosecuting Saddam was committed while the Republican American administration was quite friendly with Saddam. Odd that none from that administration, say Rumsfield???, was prosecuted for "crimes against humanity". Odd that the right wing nuts don't even condemn any from that administration for supporting such an "evil dictator" as Saddam. Quite odd as well that none of the right wing nuts ever mention the many "evil dictators" in Latin America that the United States supported ( the death tolls from the "evil dictators" supported by the United States during the 20th century would probably be closer to Fogbuster's "10 million" number).

Well, actually, it's not odd at all since the purpose for mentioning Saddam's "atrocities" is to deflect attention from the fact that Bush not only lied his way into a "war" but worse, never had a coherent plan for his unnecessary actions. Bush's (and those in his administration) arrogance is responsible for many of the deaths in Iraq today. "People kill people" but that doesn't mean that you carelessly leave guns around for children or criminals to use them. Some death is a likely consequence of military action but that doesn't mean that you abdicate your responsibility to plan properly (i.e one grounded in reality which allows for worse possible scenarios, not only rosy delusions) so as to limit the number of deaths incurred. Right wing nuts will never get this, (until THEY are negatively affected) because selfishness and a disturbing lack of emphathy are parts of their core personality.

All_Around_Brown

SNAP!!!

Right on. Under Reagan-Bush-and Jr how many innocent civilians have died??? Your points are measurably more historically accurate than these fools equating Hussein to either Hitler or Stalin, which is apparently the only way they can justify the blunder of their vote.

Checkmate on the right wing nutjobs.

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Fogbuster

Now that you mention it, I will try a search .....

And lo and behold, what did I find:

"In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed wholesale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites.[3]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...addam%27s_Iraq

So immediately AFTER the 1991 crackdown by Saddam, some 80,000 to 230,000 Kurds and Shi'a were exterminated. This is not even beginning to count those genocided by Saddam before this time period, during the war with Iran. Meanwhile, estimates on Iraqi non-combatants who have died since 2003 are between 10,000 and 30,000, deaths which you inaccurately and unfairly attribute to "Dubya". In any case, this total is far, far below the estimate (from Wikipedia, no less) on Saddam's kill responsibility.

Another source says Saddam's "Kill Tally" was:

"Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Hussein's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War."

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html


You desperately cling to my estimate of 10 million as a "lie" when you have no proof that it is inaccurate, let alone a "lie". So that makes you one who bears false accusation, a serious crime. For the two, three, five, or ten million or more who died as a result of Saddam Hussein, it is not the number that is so important as the individual people who died at his evil hand. Saddam must deal with each one now as he sees them every single day. And even if it was ONE person that he killed wrongly, he is responsible eternally for his deeds.





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All_Around_Brown

Your estimate of 10 million is only in your head. I guess if you want to count the dead Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war then you have a lot more splaining to do.

Are these dead Iranians what you are using in your estimate. Apparently so. As Ive already debunked your previous junk claim and ridiculed you for being a patent liar...you are forced to lump in those that died as a result of the war at which time we supported Hussein.

Oh, thats brilliant. Can we then include everyone killed in Bushs WOT that are supposed combatants? I didn't go there, but since you are, then I might as well too. Get it?

Oh, and where did you fabricate the 10-20,000 civilians dead under Bush? Is that straight from your sphincter too?

PS Your search was simply a replay of mine? Brilliant!

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Fogbuster

Hey, AAB, or should we call you by your real name: PressCoverage --

You have not debunked anything except your own image as a reasonable, sane, or even human being.

Your hatred and venom is the only thing you have to show for your life.

I thought there were rules about people using two or more screen names. No biggie. Bring it on, Pressboy, self-mutilating head-smasher, or whatever you are.



Bush is president. Your boys/girls are not.

They lost to "the dumbest president in history".








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Real World

MCcain could have prevented their deaths? So he now premeditated murder is what you are implying. I see you're getting more illogical and disingenuous as we go along. McCain went to Iraq knowing full well that some murdering scumbag would kill innocent civilians, which of course is why he went there in the first place.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Exactly. Totally devoid of logic.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897