Real World

Al-Anbar has been, and is, one of the most unfriendly and violent provinces for US forces in IRaq. If you've followed the war as closely as I have, you'd be extremely impressed by the article below. This is why the surge includes 4,000 additional troops for Al-Anbar.

Sunni sheiks join fight vs. insurgency

By TODD PITMAN, Associated Press Writer
Sun Mar 25, 3:39 PM ET

RAMADI, Iraq - Not long ago it would have been unthinkable: a Sunni sheik allying himself publicly with American forces in a xenophobic city at the epicenter of Iraq's Sunni insurgency.

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The American commander responsible for Ramadi, Col. John W. Charlton, said the newly friendly sheiks, combined with an aggressive counterinsurgency strategy and the presence of thousands of new Sunni police on the streets, have helped cut attacks in the city by half in recent months.

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Al-Rishawi, whose father and three brothers were killed by al-Qaida assassins, said insurgents were "killing innocent people, anyone suspected of opposing them. They brought us nothing but destruction and we finally said, enough is enough."

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But violence in some districts of Ramadi previously hit by daily street battles has dwindled to a degree so low that American soldiers can walk on the streets in some areas and hand out soccer balls without provoking a firefight — apparently a direct result of the sheik's influence.

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Al-Rishawi and other sheiks urged their tribesmen to join the police force, and 4,500 Sunnis heeded the call in Ramadi alone — a remarkable feat in a city that had almost no police a year ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070325/..._back_in_anbar

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Harry Boy

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Patters

This is of course good news. But, the fact is, if we weren't there, they would have never opposed us in the first place. As long as we stay, we remain the rallying cry and the recruitment vehicle for the terrorists.

Real World

Do you have a clue? Did you read the article? Hello? Hello?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

Yes, I did. Did you? The article says that Al Qaeda was telling people that the we are the enemy, but Sheik Al-Rishawi convinced them that we are not. That's good news. But, the fact remains, if we were not there, then Al Qaeda would not be nearly as successful at convincing people that America was the enemy. The fact that we are the enemy in whole regions seems to be the point that you are missing. As long as we are there, we give cause to anti-American sentiment.

Real World

So are you implying that if we fold up tent and leave that Al-qeada will too, and that the people there will like us because Al-qeada, in leaving too, will not be there to tell the people how bad we are?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

No, this is what I am saying and have been saying: Any Arab enemy of the United States (and there are many) can use the fact that we are in Iraq to their advantage. Al Qaeda has certainly done so. Once we leave, those who shout "Death to America" will have a harder time getting new recruits, and the more moderate groups will be able to prevail.

patsfan13

Why they were having an easy time before Iraq, matter of fact they were having an easy time recruiting before 9-11. Remember the stories of the tens of thousands who went through Al Queda training camps n Afghanistan

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Real World

I agree with you that the war in Iraq is a recruiting tool for radicals across the globe. Afghanistan was the same thing. However, to say that if we leave, the moderates will prevail is flat wrong. We're the only reason the moderates there have a chance, and are making progress. Remember, peaceful people do not prevail in such societies, only the violent radicals do. Peaceful people need support and protection.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

Do you believe that anti-American sentiment, which breeds terrorism, is on the decline?