Winter has been world's warmest on record - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

Fogbuster · #21 03-16-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdaniels7114

I know this is a 'proof the Earth is warming thread' rather than a 'what should we do about it thread;' but people who are concerned about the negatives to Global Climate Change initiatives should really consider the fact that this wouldn't be the first time we've done something to repair or protect the environment. It wasn't exactly devastating to the hunting industry when Bald Eagles were protected. McDonald's and Burger King didn't go under when they abandoned Styrofoam packaging. When was the last time you heard mention of that awful, awful LA Smog? Where did it go? Did Bush steal it? Did you even notice that the coolant used in AC's and fridges today is massively less damaging to our air than the stuff used 15 years ago? I bet the food in your refrigerator is just as cold and your car gets just as cool as back then. Hundreds of discrete things have been done over the years towards the goal of protecting the environment and the world has NOT come crashing down. Why is there the assumption that solving this problem will lead to economic ruin when all of the other stuff hasn't? Don't sensible people consider the track record?

OK, excellent point. Let's hear what sensible measures should be taken. I'm all for using ethanol or some other alternative to petroleum-based fuel. Ditch the petroleum -- for cars, at least -- and go with some much cleaner burning fuels. How much will that help if it were made into a world-wide practice?

What other measures can we take?

How about: Since it has been mentioned that temps have starting rising from 1850, the beginning of the industrial age, when COAL became widely used for fuel, why not eliminate coal as a fuel world-wide? China's GARGANTUAN coal-fire usage is so great it's ashes travel all the way across the Pacific and even to the East Coast of the U.S. Let's eliminate that. But then a substitute energy is needed: nuclear is the only answer that I can see. Safe nuclear, of course, not the cheap Chernobyl style, but something much safer.

//

***BelichickFan*** · #22 03-16-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

I know you're tired of bullsh!t solutions, and Patters is the wrong one in this thread (I'll get to that), but saying dumb sh!t doesn't help either. You start to sound like a rube when you say dismissive crap like that and don't actually answer the point.

Obviously I'm being silly but there's as much evidence that global warming is simply a result of normal cyclic chnages in the sun as from anything else.

QuiGon · #23 03-16-2007, 10:53 AM

Wait a second... just a couple posts ago, in another thread, we were all told that global warming creates cold conditions... something about the Atlantic currents or some other such nonsense (the same nonsense used in "The Day After Tomorrow")...

I wish the global warming alarmists would make up their minds and dispense with the Chicken Little "sky is falling!" routine...

Pujo · #24 03-16-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuiGon

Wait a second... just a couple posts ago, in another thread, we were all told that global warming creates cold conditions... something about the Atlantic currents or some other such nonsense (the same nonsense used in "The Day After Tomorrow")...

I wish the global warming alarmists would make up their minds and dispense with the Chicken Little "sky is falling!" routine...

Who said that? Link?

patsfan13 · #25 03-16-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Yeah, that's right, just as the Industrial Revolution got underway and man started polluting the atmosphere, temperature have been increasing. What a coincidence!

Look at the sunspots Patters, actually Global temps have been warming since the end of the last little ice age. That is well before the industrial revolution. Good try att eh partisan interpretation though.

Pujo · #26 03-16-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

Look at the sunspots Patters, actually Global temps have been warming since the end of the last little ice age. That is well before the industrial revolution. Good try att eh partisan interpretation though.

Can someone please explain what sunspots have to do with this?? From what I understand of sunspots, they are colder areas on the surface of the sun (which is why they're darker). Sunspot activity increased from 1900 to 1960[1] (meaning the average surface temperature ofd the sun slightly decreased), even though Earth's temperatures were rising during that time.

I might buy an excuse related to solar output, but it sounds like you're using words you don't understand when you invoke sunspots.

Don't bother to tell me that I "don't understand science" unless you can point out what, specifically, I'm missing.

Refrence [1]: http://sidc.oma.be/html/wolfaml.html

***Harry Boy*** · #27 03-16-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Almost Harry. If you said The Liberals Will Save Us, I would have been truly impressed by your insight.

Same Thing

Deus Irae · #28 03-16-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Can someone please explain what sunspots have to do with this?? From what I understand of sunspots, they are colder areas on the surface of the sun (which is why they're darker). Sunspot activity increased from 1900 to 1960[1] (meaning the average surface temperature ofd the sun slightly decreased), even though Earth's temperatures were rising during that time.

I might buy an excuse related to solar output, but it sounds like you're using words you don't understand when you invoke sunspots.

Don't bother to tell me that I "don't understand science" unless you can point out what, specifically, I'm missing.

Refrence [1]: http://sidc.oma.be/html/wolfaml.html

From an old Telegraph article (2004). I snipped this so you could just get an answer to your question:

Quote:

To determine the Sun's role in global warming, Dr Solanki's research team measured magnetic zones on the Sun's surface known as sunspots, which are believed to intensify the Sun's energy output.

The team studied sunspot data going back several hundred years. They found that a dearth of sunspots signalled a cold period - which could last up to 50 years - but that over the past century their numbers had increased as the Earth's climate grew steadily warmer. The scientists also compared data from ice samples collected during an expedition to Greenland in 1991. The most recent samples contained the lowest recorded levels of beryllium 10 for more than 1,000 years. Beryllium 10 is a particle created by cosmic rays that decreases in the Earth's atmosphere as the magnetic energy from the Sun increases. Scientists can currently trace beryllium 10 levels back 1,150 years.

I hope that's what you were looking for.

patsfan13 · #29 03-16-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Can someone please explain what sunspots have to do with this?? From what I understand of sunspots, they are colder areas on the surface of the sun (which is why they're darker). Sunspot activity increased from 1900 to 1960[1] (meaning the average surface temperature ofd the sun slightly decreased), even though Earth's temperatures were rising during that time.

I might buy an excuse related to solar output, but it sounds like you're using words you don't understand when you invoke sunspots.

Don't bother to tell me that I "don't understand science" unless you can point out what, specifically, I'm missing.

Refrence [1]: http://sidc.oma.be/html/wolfaml.html

Sunspots reflect greater solar activity. 1 effect is an increase in the Solar wind and the strength of the Sun's magnetic filed. This affects the number of cosmic rays entering the atmosphere. Cosmic rays in the atmosphere are a key element of cloud formation.

More clouds = less sunlight making it to the surface of the earth, = cooler earth. Fewer clouds = more sunlight reaching the surface of the earth (less reflected back into space)= higher temps on the earth.

People have been measuring sunspots for 400+ years the # of sunspots are closely coupled with the temp of the earth. Unlike CO2 it is a leading indicator wheras CO2 is a lagging indicator of temperature.

Real World · #30 03-16-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Yeah, that's right, just as the Industrial Revolution got underway and man started polluting the atmosphere, temperature have been increasing. What a coincidence!

You mean like back during the Medival Industrial Revolution?

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