maverick4

If we fail in Iraq, what are the ramifications?

- We lose the Middle East for the next 50 years?
- The start of World War III (beginning with Iran v Israel)?
- Downward spiral of the US economy resulting from lost control of energy?

Basically, what are the stakes if we lose in Iraq?

patsfan13

The terrorist will have their assumption that we lack to will to fight the WOT confirmed. Islamist cause will be strenghted world wide. IMO

Energy is the least of it. We have other resources we could develop if we had the political will.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Real World

The continuation of islamic run, fundamentalist nations in the heart of the ME. It means sharia law, more bloodshed between the savage primitive factions that have hated each other since birth, and their control of most of the worlds oil. What's bad about them controlling the oil isn't only economics, as we could eventually get over that through technological means, but it's that absolute loons would have a printing press for money. Money they could use for weapons with which they could destroy either infidels, or enemies of any kind. Iran versus Israel, Iran versus Saudi Arabia (sunni versus shia) Turkey versus Kurdistan, etc.. Basically, it could, and I stress could, mean utter chaos. That's the doomsday version anyhow. Most likely, it would end up continuing to be the *****hole it's always been. It will be a killing field for religious lunatics. Israel Palestine times 5 or 10. Shia and Sunni, fueled by Iran on one side, and the Saudi's on the other. The Saudi's are sunni.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

PressCoverage

or, to sum this drivel up more concisely: "they're all primative savages who can't handle money, and only the U.S. and Christianity can keep a leash on them... oh, and we need their oil."

DarrylS

If we loose in Iraq, maybe we will learn a lesson of not going into a country and wage war from the PC folks in DC. If we have to fight, let it be done by the men on the ground with adequate forces, superior equipment and superior intelligence. The problem, as I see it, is we were not prepared for the length of this battle, the political realities and bottom line we are fighting with the wrong people.. the terrorism against the US did not originate in Iraq..

I thought we learned some of these lessons in Viet Nam, Somalia, Korea.. but I guess not, not sure if it is ADD or short term memory loss.

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"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

wistahpatsfan

The memories of a generation fade every 20 years. It's ADD of the American public that the Military Industrial Complex relies on to continue their policy of creating wars every 20 years. They are then able to sell the Pentagon, staffed with little boys who never grew up, their weapons programs. The Pentagon, consumed with an irresistible need to play with their new toys, wait for an administration to come along who will go along with their games. The soldiers and the American public are whipped into a frenzy and, because they believe what they are told by the government-controlled majority of the media, happily go along for the ride.

If we leave Iraq, we have not failed. The use of the term "fail" implies that there was another opposite option, like "succeed", which has never been defined and has never had a plan for achievement. At this point, there are no options left but to leave. There are those who long for a chance at redemption for the "unfinished business" in Viet Nam. These men who have carried a sense of defeat and/or guilt all their lives because they were driven from Nam militarily or they dodged the draft while their "friends" (as if they had any) went over and died or were maimed. What they don't understand is that we had no chance of winning in Nam any more than we have a chance of "winning" in Iraq. The premise is fallacious.

bmf31c

I just want to point out that the WAR has been won, that's what the military's job was. The enemy was closed upon and destroyed.

The post-war establishment of a free tri-partisan Islamic Democratic Republic is what has not happened. The lack of strategy to establish this government isn't the onus of the military.

The Military did it's job, the politicians have failed on their end once again.

wistahpatsfan

I agree in part with your post.

Not to beat a dead horse, but...and you know what's coming...who was the "enemy" and what was the goal? I know it's not up to you to make that definition, but how was it related to you on the ground?

bmf31c

The way I see it was, that we where supposed to depose the Hussein Regime and defeat the Iraqi military. That was done, I say we did our job.

The cluster ***** that has been going on is a result of political pandering. The intent of what the continuing boon-doggle is, can only be answered by the folks in DC. The military is paying a big toll and having it's effectiveness brought into question.

I say this, given a clear intent and mission without a bunch of bull**** rules of engagement the military could and would accomplish anything assigned to it.

bmf31c

I guess my ultimate point is that the military is good at fighting...not-so-much at nation building.