Fogbuster

I'm sorry you read it that way. The point is simply that there are still conflicting pieces of evidence about a lot of things, such as: how sustained this period of temp rise will be -- to know that we need to know the cause; to know the cause means we need hard evidence, scientific data, and there has not been a total consensus on this as far as I can see.

The two divergent cases I presented were to highlight this uncertainty, and uncertainty that seems very much to be exploited by those who have some personal agendas to fulfill.

Pujo

FUD - fear, uncertainty, doubt. It's what the anti-warming crowd here keeps going back to.

They first attack the very premise of global warming, when called on it they shift to attacking the proposed solutions. They say China is worse than us, when called on it say that looking at it on per-person basis doesn't make sense. They say that mankind isn't the major contributor, when it's pointed out that how COULD mankind not be the biggest contributor, they talk about CO2 from cows passing gas. When it's pointed out that the cows our only there for our benefit, blame Bill Clinton for getting a blow-job and start the cycle over.

We'd be better off, all of us, if we could accept:
1. The Earth is warming
2. The effects of the Earth warming, on existing life, are mostly negative
3. Humans are a contributing to the warming.

Then we can all disagree on what solution - if any - is reasonable.

Real World

So if it's 4.5 billion years old, then is it logical to question what 100 years of measured temperature accurately reflects?

100 / 4,500,000,000 = not very much.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

First you said 99% has been lost over the 30 years (But in the meantime (the last 30 years), 99% of Canada's ice shelves have vanished. ) and now you provide a dooms day link that says 90% over the next 100? Then people wonder why I don't subscribe to extremism.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Pujo

That's not logic. By that logic, if the temperature rose 100 degrees over the next century (it won't, but just as an example), people like you could still say:

Pujo

My memory was wrong, guilty, and I probably didn't research as carefuly as I should have because I was driving a point. That's irresponsible of me. But it doesn't change the reality: the ice shelves are going, going, almost gone. Besides, talking to you I don't get the impression that you're against extremism, you just say that because it's the right thing to say.

Real World

You had absolutely no clue, as I didn't either, that cows caused more CO2 than cars, boats, industry, etc. combined. You really are funny sometimes Pujo. Furthermore, per capita is a means to fudge numbers to benefit a desired result. What does per capita actually mean? What answer does it give us? When you have nations that arer fully developed industrially, and who's growth is stable, how does their "per capita" compare to the much more populated, faster growing nations that have little, if any pollutions regulations to speak of? Comprehensive plans and discussion need to be made, not some UN mandated fear campaign to socialize the world. China's GDP has risen something like 8-12% over the last 5 years. Where will they be in the next five? Add to that India, Pakistan, Brazil, et al. I'm just surprised that some people have such narrow views when it comes to issues like these. As if the extremists on both sides don't have some agenda to serve.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Pujo

You're like a ranting housewife. You don't know what you're mad about, so you spew up everything at once. Cows? My god man, the cows are part of us. You can't blame cows, who we breed, feed, and keep, for pollution anymore than you can blame cars. I didn't know about cows? Great, that's a nice piece of trivia, but it doesn't change the warming situation in the slightest. They're all human instruments. As to the rest of your post, I stopped reading because it was making me sad.

Real World

There you go again, you were wrong about the ice shelves, yet you again say they are almost gone. I dunno, maybe it's me.

Of course someone who has an extremist view, like you do with GW, would find someone of rationale mind a bit fony. You'd call someone with the opposing extreme a liar or moron, as they would of you, but a rational person just seems to untrustworthy.


I get it all the time.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

You can't blame cows like you can't blame cars?

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897