Real World

That's a local affiliate. That's so different than the cable network itself.

Like I said, watch the link I posted from the British channel.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Fixit

I don't think rounding up Muslims, a la "The Siege", is as far-fetched as you may think. I hope you're right, though.

The Japanese were savages, slaughtering millions in Indo-China. But be careful when using one-sided perspective of a country's savage history to justify dropping two atomic bombs. What did we do to the American Indians, again?

Mainland invasion would have been preferable, because then the lion's share of casualties would be war personnel (on both sides), and not innocent men, women, and children.

Real World

So where do you draw the line then? Obviously people evolve. Our country certainly has. Do you go back 1,000 years? To the Crusades? MAybe we should go back to the Romans treatment of the Jews in Jerusalem? You mentioned the A-bombs and WW II in relation to 9/11. I simply pointed out the flaws in your example.

Mainland invasion would have been better? I couldn't disagree more. The Japs were ruthless and faught to the death. You'd be talking a million casualties at least, plus the massive destruction of infrastructure, and catostrophic humanitarian crisis accross the country and region. Don't forget that they carpet bombed back then, as it was common practice. Attacking the mainland would have resulted in more civilian deaths than Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused.

BTW, The Siege is a fantastic movie. I own it, and have watched it 20 times. It's scary when you think it was made 10 years ago or so.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

FreeTedWilliams

You are officially insane! You would have "preferred' an invasion of Japan! Go read some non-edited history books. The Japanese were buried into the sands, an allied invasion of japan would have costs millions of American lives.

That is why Truman, said that he never lost a night's sleep over his decision.
The Japanese would have never surrendered, Those bombs saved millions of lives than they took.

Now if we had bombed Afghanistan out of existance on September 12th, 2001, the rest of the terrorists would have surrendered, and this war too would be over. However we used less force and they just waited for their "useful idoits" to take hold in America.

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Fixit

Aren't we in the process of occupying a sovereign country right now, driving the death toll up, and angling to do the same thing to another?

Countries don't evolve, because people don't evolve, man. Physiologically, yes, of course. But who we are at the core? Nope.

Humans are every bit the savages they've been since they crawled out of the slime (or were blinked into existence, depending upon one's belief)...they just have newer, more efficient ways to kill each other. In fact, I'd say we're getting more savage, and it's all driven by greed and fear.

I agree on "The Siege."

Fixit

Want to fight a war? Fight it right. Civilian casualties happen in a war, there's no avoiding that. But almost 200,000, deliberately, in the blink of an eye? What could ever be worth that?

I assume you'd have no problem with a country nuking us, simply because it would keep their losses down.

The terrorists would have surrendered? Does anyone here believe that?

You go awful free and easy with the nuking other countries talk, I notice. And you say I'm insane?

Real World

Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the doomsday stuff like some. Anyhow, people clearly evolve. We had a church that ordered war, and that doesn't happen anymore. We had slavery, and that doesn't happen anymore. We had imperialism, and that doesn't happen anymore. People, generally speaking, have evolved, and will continue to. Does that mean that everyone has, or that people are perfect? Nope.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Do you know about WW II history?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Fixit

No, what's that?

Real World

Simply because anyone who knew the specifics of Indo-China, their treatment of allied POW's, or the verocity of their soldiers during the island battles, would certainly see that 250k civilian deaths was small in comparrison to what would have been delivered in a mainland assualt. A mainland assault would have killed more than 250k civilians in and of itself. A conventional bombing campaign would have devastated more cites and civilians because it would create a wider scaled humanitarian crisis, than did 2 bombs on two cites.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897