Real World

Patters, I like Obama personally. He's a very eloquent speaker, and seems pretty down to earth in the few times I've seen him speak. I know very little about him politically, and I follow politics. It's why I'd bet the general public knows even less about him. When a candidate is so green, he is open to being shaped by the political establishment. He'll be shredded by the Dems in a primary, and then more so by the GOP were he able to make it that far. Today's politics are disheartening and evil. His lack of experience means he will be defined by other facts and experiences. He's got alot to worry about.

Also, my problem with his running is that if he's shaped now, it will be hard for him to shake that in the future.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

scout

He can not run for governor of Illinois. This is one corrupt state, and one individual is not going to change that. The net result would be a big bulls eye on him ala swift boats. Senators have a disadvantage because of their voting, but the opposition would have a field day with him if he had been Gov. of Illinois. Currently, the former gov. is serving time. The present gov. could go down any day as well as Mayor Daley. It stinks from top to bottom and I don't see any of the cronyism stopping anytime soon.

Real World

I've had this mentioned to me before. Sorry, but your point is all the more reason why he should run. As the governor of a currently corrupt state, he would have the opportunity to change the current situation, and would then be hailed as the man who turned illinois around. It would help his resume incredibley. Senators do lousy partly because of their voting records, but mostly because they've run nothing. They have no experience in that respect. When you govern a state, you are, in essence, a state president. That type of experience counts far more to voters than does a senators.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

I'm not sure that's an issue. The Swiftboat Liars shaped Kerry well after he and the Democratic Party had already crafted him as a war hero (which he was), a Vietnam vet (which he was), and a moderate (which he wasn't; he was more liberal than the platform he ran on). If Obama demonstrates that he can weather the lies and distortions of the unethical right-wing (already started) as well as the more moderate attacks by Democrats, then he will show that he has the toughness to be a national candidate. At this time, I think he'd make a great VP (speaking from a political perspective) even with his relative lack of experience. I don't know enough about VP candidates in the past, but certainly, politics aside, Obama is at least as electable as Cheney.

Real World

Typical answer on your part. I'ts always the right wing liars.

Clinton and Obama campaigners trade insults
By Edward Luce in Washington

Published: January 22 2007 18:27 | Last updated: January 22 2007 18:27

The Democratic party’s presidential campaign got into full swing on Monday with campaign staff for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton already indulging in sniping contests over the relative merits of their candidates.

Campaign workers for Mrs Clinton, who on Monday signed the papers to set up a presidential exploratory committee – the first step before declaring a formal candidacy – made indirect attacks on the relative inexperience of Mr Obama, who entered the race a week ago.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/289f5b7e-aa4...0779e2340.html


Anyhow, the guy is making a mistake. Sure, he could make a nice VP, ask Kerry & Edwards how that worked out for them. What I'm trying to say is that Obama has a real chance down the road, but not now. The guy is extremely interesting, but only so because people know nothing about him. Kerry wasn't shaped by the right as much as he was pointed out. Kerry was a liberal, and had some questionable actions with respect to his Vietnam Service. I didn't like them ripping his service, I thought it was distasteful, but at the same time, Kerry tried to exploit his service, when there were some serious questions regarding his post war actions. I just think Obama is running the risk of making himself an also-ran. One of those people that runs so many times and looses that people never take him seriously again. I think Edwards has no chance, and shouldn't run for this reason also. Think Lieberman & Bob Dole, guys who ran alot, and thus were never again taken seriously.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Harry Boy

What will they call "Billy Blue Dress"
The First Man
The First Gentleman
The First Husband
The First Guy
The First "Lady Guy"
The First "Guy Lady"
The First A$s Hole----------------

__________________
Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Patters

Obviously, it's about the right-wing machine. They are the biggest opponents of people like Obama, Hillary, etc. They will do the bidding for the Republican Party, just as groups like MoveOn will do the bidding for the Democratic Party. The Dems themselves will attack and criticize Obama, but they're not going to try to frame him, as the right-wing is already doing, as a Muslim whose middle name is Hussein and who went to a terrorist school. The Dems need Obama's supporters, so will attack with kid gloves especially on issues of race and religion. The right wing has largely written off blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims so can be far more brazen in their attacks.

Harry Boy

President Obama--
Is Obama His Real Name?
Is Obama Whose Real Name?

__________________
Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

PressCoverage

another baseless allegation by Faux, another fact-based refutiation by CNN:

CNN Debunks False Obama ‘Madrassa’ Smear

Last week, Fox News and other Rupert Murdoch outlets amplified a right-wing report alleging that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) attended an Islamic “madrassa” school as a 6-year-old child. One Fox News caller questioned whether Obama’s schooling means that “maybe he doesn’t consider terrorists the enemy.” Fox anchor Brian Kilmeade responded, “Well, we’ll see about that.”

Commenting on this report today, Wolf Blitzer said that CNN had done “what any serious news organization is supposed to do in this kind of a situation”: actually investigate and learn the facts. CNN’s Senior International Correspondent John Vause filed a report from Indonesia. Watch it:


In the report, Vause says, “I’ve been to those madrassas in Pakistan … this school is nothing like that.” He also interviews a classmate of Obama’s who says the school was not even strictly Muslim; it also taught Christian, Buddhist, and Confucian students.

CNN has more details HERE.

IcyPatriot

Well said ... like I said in another thread ... if he's trying to get on as a VP then it's a good call. If he's just exposing himself and doesn't get blindsided then also good call. But if he's running for real and has to trash another democrat IMO he will be hurting their party.