All_Around_Brown

Patters, that is the basic twisted logic the right wing has woven themselves in.

They are now twisted into mental knots, a clear result of the quagmire they've gotten America into.

Al Qaeda wants to get americans out? I doubt it. Our presence in Iraq is their best recruiting poster ever. And as long as chaos reigns in Iraq, they will get less attention elsewhere.

In fact, while we fail in Iraq, we are also losing ground quickly in Afghanistan. Thanks Bush, you will have lost two wars before you are done. One you chose. And one the US people chose.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Real World

Logical debate? With NEM?




Oh my, you must be new here.

I love NEM's passion, and certainly respect his participation in the forum, but he's a one trick pony. Die GW, die!

I still love you NEM!

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Hmmm....I thought you forgave everybody Patters?

GW has made serious mistakes. I voted for him and I know that. What I find disengenuous on the part of posters in this forum is that they hate GW so much, that they are incapable of being taken seriously in any logical debate.

As for lying, would I be surprised if he did? Nope. Do I feel that he did. No. Is there a fine line between lying and leading when it comes to being president? Sure is. As much as GW deserved the criticism regarding Iraq, I'm surprised at how little scrutiny the Senate recieves for voting in favor of action.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Holy Diver

is that last Rumsfeldian? yes it is.

Real World

Wow, nothing like blatant negativity and anti-americanism at its finest. Next you'll try to tell us that you actually want the US to succeed in Afghanistan and in Iraq too right? So how exactly are we failing in Afghanistan? We're loosing there too now? Didn't know we lost either war really, that's news to me.

BTW, Al-Queda deffinately wants the US to withdraw from Iraq. Do you think they are there loosing thousands of fighters and millions in resources for recruiting purposes? The longer the US is stationed in Iraq to support its government, the less likely it is that Al-Queda will be able to overthrow it. AG needs us to leave if they are to succeed in IRaq.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Huh?

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

I guess I missed this post. Nothing like some good, old fashioned, freedom loving idea's eh?

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

All_Around_Brown

I think you have completely failed to understand our enemy. A-Q wants us to remain in Iraq. We have precious little time before we must pick sides, and all signs point to our backing the Shia while they conduct genocide against our true enemy, the Sunni and the Al Q offshoots of the wahhabi. But that won't happen in the end.

Unfortunately, you are too immersed in your own rhetoric to notice that our ally, Saudi Arabia, has Cheney on a tight tether, and that any day now we will have to join the Sunni to combat the Iranian-backed Shia uprising we helped to uncork.

Then, while all our oil cronies and sunni shieks are sitting around porking each other, the shia are grabbing as many oil fields as they possibly can, and Iran tells us (in Cheneys words) "Go FOCH yourself!"...you may be the last to notice how gravely Bush screwed the proverbial pooch and lost Afghanistan by escalating our presence in Iraq.

Aren't you reading the newspaper or haven't you read the ISG report??? The situation is grave and deteriorating and you are under the impression that all's well? Or am I misunderstanding you?

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Real World

Um, the Saudi's are sunni which I'm pretty sure you knew already. The Saudi's are gravely concerned with a US withdrawl, and are also fearful of Iran puppeting Iraq in a similar fashion as they do Syria and Lebanon. If Cheney were SA's biitch as you say, and GW were Cheney's biitch as most accuse, then wouldn't we be on the side of the Sunni, not the Shia, as you say?

Anyhow, I've been saying for years now that Al-Sadr and Iran are problem #1 in Iraq. I've also been saying that the surge in troops should only be done if it is for the express purpose of destroying the Mehdi Army. I've even been asked why I feel this way, and what information has lead me to this opinion, by posters in this very forum. I think I understand the situation in IRaq better than 90% of the people who post in here. There is an undeniable fragility to what is going on there. I don't think anyone is saying the siuation is rosey. Clearly, the readiness of the ISF is what's key. There is no sense in stiring the hornets nest (taking on the militia's) if the Iraqis are not yet ready to maintain security thereafter. It's why I think the timing of a surge is not accidental. The ISF is numerically in place, they simply need logictics imporvements, and operational experience. By my calculations, a surge, and subsequent smashing of Al-Sadr, would seem to fit into the ISF time table. The writing is on the wall, and all it takes is a bit of common sense to figure it all out. The key in Iraq is disbanding the militias. Once they are destroyed, and ISF forces take control, then the US can get out. Obvioulsy the Admin is not going to say a troop surge is for this purpose, why let the enemy know your coming after them ahead of time?

Again, I didn't know we had lost in Afghanistan.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897