Real World

The advances with Hydrogen cells are becoming very fruitfull. It seems that Honda has made some break throughs in respect to previous problem area's such as cell size, weight, and cold weather starts. I'm a firm believer that Hydrogen is the way to go. Clean & cheap, it could solve a multitude of problems the planet faces, nevermind our own.

Here are some excerpts:



Hydrogen Wonder

By SAM ABUELSAMID | AUTOBLOGGREEN.COM

The end result is a power generation unit that has a power/volume density ratio 50 percent higher than the previous generation introduced in 2003 and a 67 percent improvement in power/weight ratio. Compared to the unit from 1999 those numbers are up by a factor of four. So they now have a stack that is small enough and powerful enough to fit upright in the center tunnel of the car.

The fuel cell power-plant is 400 lbs lighter than the unit in the 2005 model. One of the pitfalls of previous fuel cells has been cold-weather start up performance. The Ford Focus FCV that was recently evaluated here needed to be kept above 40 degrees Fahrenheit to start. The 2006 FCX can start up at -4F and the new car with the vertical V Flow fuel cell stack can start-up at -22F. The current model also uses an ultracapacitor instead of a battery. The new version is equipped with a newly designed lithium-ion battery pack to supply supplemental power and also to run the air compressor necessary to get the fuel cell started. The battery is 40 percent lighter and 43 percent smaller in volume than the ultracapacitor while having much more power capacity.

For fuel storage, the new car replaces the two smaller hydrogen cylinders of the current car with a single larger capacity tank. Capacity of the tank is now 4kg (8.8 lbs) of hydrogen gas at 5000 psi. The combination of increased fuel capacity and more efficient powertrain yields a thirty percent improvement in range compared to the 2006 model. The current car goes 210 miles on the EPA combined test mode while the new one goes 270 miles and is expected to improve even more by the time production starts in 2008.

http://autos.aol.com/article/hybrid/...26123209990001

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Pujo

I like hydrogen, the only thing that scares me (and maybe it's not true, but it's what I've heard) is that if you get into an accident and rupture your fuel cell, you could take out half a city block.

Real World

That's not true. It's not a bomb.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Pujo

Why not? You're talking about something with a very high energy density. Either that energy gets released over time in a controlled process, or it gets released all at once in an uncontrolled process.

I'd use the analogy of nuclear fission: it can happen in a reactor to provide steady power, or it can happen in a bomb to provide instant, destructive power.

Real World

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid536.php

I don't think the giant auto manufacturers would invest tens of billions of dollars into Hydrogen vehicles if they were going to explode and exterminate half a city block. Do you? Think of the liability involved. Don't think Hydrogen bomb, and Ford Focus in the same sentence. Furthermore, how many gasoline powered vehicles explode in accidents? Safety is usually a determining factor when billions of dollars of R&D costs are about to be put forth.

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid536.php

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

patsfan13

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, ot an energy source. You have to expend energy converting water to H + O, how do you do that nuke? or coal?

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Pujo

Hydrogen can be seperated from natural gas with an 80% efficiency, and from other hydrocarbons with slightly less efficiency.

Algae can also be used to produce hydrogen in something called an algae bioreactor.

For high temperature electrolysis (what you were talking about), nuclear power would probably be the only efficient system.

Real World

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsfan13
Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, ot an energy source. You have to expend energy converting water to H + O, how do you do that nuke? or coal?


Um......

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

wistahpatsfan

LMFAO!
I have some friends in Iceland, where the government has been committed to total vehicle hydrogen power conversion for five years. Fortunately for them, they have a completely renewable energy supply because they have geothermal and hydro power in unlimited availability, electricity is basically free there. They might become the worlds supplier of hydrogen fuel cells in the future.

We, on the other hand, can only produce hydrogen effectively by using nukes.

All_Around_Brown

Thats what they said about the Hindenburg.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.