Turd Furguson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6171083.stm

Healthy new-born babies may have been killed in Ukraine to feed a flourishing international trade in stem cells, evidence obtained by the BBC suggests.


Good lord.

wistahpatsfan

Killing new-born babies is a really bad thing to do...NO SH-T!

Using embryonic stem cells for research on horrible diseases and possible cures is a good thing. Try talking to someone with a family member who has a deadly disease without the cure they desperately need. I think they'd be appalled by this news but would still be in favor of any type of research that might help find a cure. Parents with sick kids, especially, will do anything to help their kids. If they won't they shouldn't be parents. Using embryonic stem cells from aborted fetuses or zygotes from fertility clinics that are headed for the dumpster is acceptable to most people. To not use them for research is immoral.

You are trying to link embryonic stem cell research with the killing of newborn babies as if that's how we get all stem cells. That's idiotic and illogical and you can definitely do better.

Turd Furguson

Just pointing out an article thats all.

People try to make a buck on anything these days.

IcyPatriot

If anyone ever paid for my body parts that would be highway robbery.

wistahpatsfan

It's a horrible thing, that's for sure. It sickens me to think of it from our cultural perspective. When you think about it, everything's about making a buck with the exception of saving the lives of your loved ones. Now that I think of it, even that's about making a buck from the perspective of Insurance companies and hospital conglomerates...very frustrating.

Real World

I blame Capitalism. This would never happen under Stalin. Any chance we could clone him and put him back in power?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

No, he did link embryonic stem cell research with the killing of newborn babies. Did you not read the article? It was in bold.

Healthy new-born babies may have been killed in Ukraine to feed a flourishing international trade in stem cells

Maybe you meant to point out that his was an exception and not the rule. Normally they only kill unborn babies to get embryonic stem cells.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

wistahpatsfan

I'm opposed to abortion on moral grounds since I had kids. That's what happens a lot to many people who would otherwise be apathetic to the whole issue, especially unmarried men. I read the article, but you and Turd both know why it can be linked to the larger issue of ESC research. I gave Turd the benefit of the doubt and accepted his response...no problem.

You are incorrect, though, about your assertion that "they only kill unborn babies to get embryonic stem cells". They usually kill unborn babies because the mother doesn't want the child. No one is killing unborn babies for the stem cells that I've heard of except for this story (yet...) but I'm sure of the potential for such an abuse. ESC's are obtainable from these aborted fetuses as well as discarded embryos developed in fertility clinics. Your level of comfort depends on when you think a zygote becomes a human and on how badly you desire new options for research on a number of diseases that kill children. It's a very difficult moral dilema, and many decisions are being made on a religious or emotional basis - which IMO is wrong.

Real World

I guess I should have phrased my point differently. Instead of they kill unborn babies for embryonic stem cells, I probably should have said that they rip ebryonic stem cells out of murdered unborn babies.

I understand your point Wistah. That abortions happen so why not use the cells for research. Totally valid point, and one which agree with. The issue is far from being simple. It's just that companies pay money for the cells. At least thats what they were talking about in Missouri.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

PF1996

It's always amusing how often conservatives simply serve to verify that they are indeed irrational, illogical intolerants in their vain attempts to show the correctness of their positions...in this case "stem cell research using embryonic cells is wrong".

This article is about speculative as a report can possibly get. Let's review the "evidence"....

Unsubstantiated claims of giving birth to "healthy babies"

Some video footage of exhumed bodies

Assuming for now that the women mentioned in the article are telling the truth...there is NO evidence [given in the article] that those "missing babies" are the same babies whose bodies were exhumed. We do not know that the conditions of the bodies resulted from autopsies. There is no factual information given in the article whatsoever to support a claim that "healthy babies were killed to get stem cells". But when has a lack of facts ever stopped a conservative rant