Real World

So who's land was it that the English gave? The region at every point in time has either belonged to, or been ruled by, someone different. Before the english, it belonged to the Ottoman Empire, before the Ottoman's it belonged to the Persians, the Mamluks, the Byzantines, the Romans, etc...The one constant throughout it all was the existence of each faction that today maintains claim. The bottom line is that there wasn't a soveriegn nation that stood there at any point in time. That Palestinians (today's version) made up the majority of the population during the the days of the UN partition ignores the history of the region in all the years prior. Jews were banned from Jerrusalem and the surrounding region by previous empirical rulers. Did there extermination from the land thus prohibit their original claim? I think the issue is far more complicated than enough people realize. The bad blood, the claims to territorial rights, and the general dislike on both sides has existed for thousands of years. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you cut off the timeline? Better yet, who decides when that line is drawn? The Jews say it's their land, the Palestinians say it's theirs. I think the intention of the UN Partition was to split it amongst the two factions. Well when they did, a war ensued.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Turk

You are correct on most everything above.

As I said, the British ruling is another topic of discussion all together and it is slightly different than the Ottoman ruling of the land, in that Ottomans were not colonists, but fellow Muslims who ruled the land but did not colonize sucking the resources of foreign lands dry and enslaving the inhabitants.

It was the Ottoman Sultan that initially gave the order and the "fatvah" for the creation of a Jewish homeland.

Prior to the modern Turkish Republic, the Ottoman Sultans also enjoyed the powers of "halifat", a position of Muslim religious leadership, comparable to that of the Pope, for Christians. So, the order was both religious and legal, since that land was ruled by the Ottomans.

Later on, once Ataturk founded the Turkish Republic, the first thing he did was abolish the halifat.

There is no argument up to that point.

There is no argument as to the suffering of the Jews in just about every country they lived in, for so many years.

The only one country where they were welcome with open arms during the two European Genocidal campaigns against them was the pre-dominantly Muslim Turkey, by the way. If it were not for the Ottomans, there would be no Sephardic Jews today as the Ottoman Sultan sent his fleet to Spain and brought them home, and during the WWII, again, it was the Turkish Embassies in France and Greece that issued Turkish Passports to Jews in order to save them from the "modern" Europeans.

There is an independent movie called "Desperate Hours" that I would highly recommend. If you are interested, pm me and I will send you a disk.

There is also, no argument as to the validity of the state of Israel and its right to exist and defend itself. It had the moral superiority as well as the support of the west during the wars against the Arab coalition and it won, rightfully.

The argument begins with what the Zionists did once they created a Jewish State and their treatment of the Palestinians.

As to your question in regards to a timetable, how willing are you, personally, to give up your home to a native American?

Real World

I'm not. Don't get me wrong I feel bad for their plight, but it is what it is.

As for Israel/Palestine, when you begin to read and learn about what has gone on there for thousands of years, you begin to see why there is such anomosity on both sides, and why a real resolution will never be agreed to in our lifetime. The problem with mediators, or discussions in forums like these, is that people have already made up there mind about which side is right, or which is wrong. Just like Dem & Repub sheeple, the blinded clowns on each side will never concede that there "team" is wrong. The Israeli's are far from innocent, and niether are the Palestinians.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Turk

And we agree, yet again.

Real World

I think most informed people would agree as we do. I think where the disagreement may begin for most in our bracket would be post 1948.

That aside, my issue with this problem is two fold. I get upset at ignorant people who only base their positions on the news. They either hate Israel cuz they bulldozed a refugee camp, or despise the Palestinians for blowing up a cafe. There is so much more involved. More so than this, my issue rests with the MSM & globe. The greater MSM & world body seem to peg a far greater portion of the blame on Israel. To me it seems that their reporting has unfairly increased anti-Israeli sentiment abroad. ISrael was completely chastised for the recent incursion into LEbanon, whereas Hezbollah was given a free pass. The unfair slant in the news has fueled an illogical arguement regarding the problem and potential solutions. It's become similar to the left versus right arguement here in the states. Too many sheeple, and not enough intelligent debate. Imagine trying to get NEM & Harry to work out a sensible compromise? That's what the Israel Palestine situation has become in the minds of too many.

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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897