Republican Activist Judge Throws out Charges against Ken Lay.. - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

Pujo · 10-18-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuiGon

Pretty weak response Pujo - even by your standards. What's the interest on $50,000 over 4 years...? At 5% annual interest, you would have about $60,000 instead of $50,000. So my point stands.

Then the amount the investor should recover is $60,000, not $50,000 (assuming it's even possible to recover the investment).

Real World · 10-18-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

The criminal case against Ken Lay came to an end Tuesday when a judge vacated his convictions and dismissed the indictment that brought him to trial.

U.S. District Judge Sim Lake granted the request by Lay's estate to wipe out the convictions against the late Enron chairman, an outcome that was widely anticipated, given legal precedent. Lake also dismissed the indictment that was filed against him in 2004.

In his ruling, Lake cited a decision in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that makes a defendant's death before his or her appeals have been exhausted grounds for throwing out a conviction and dismissing an indictment.

I'm not sure what the judge has to do with this really. He clearly ruled as has been ruled in similar cases. I'm not sure what the fuss is about. Was the judge supposed to go against precedent?

Pujo · 10-18-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelichickFan

It would suck but not only do I have my money in mutual funds, I have it spread through about 10 different ones. Lower upside, lower risk. Others go for higher upside and higher risk. Good luck to them.

Bottom line, though, I have half my retirement in the S&P 500 which is about as sexy as a 65 year old woman weighing 300 pounds. But it averages 12% over the past 70 years and it can't be "stolen" from bad investments as they have to invest it in a balanced way through the S&P 500 companies. Safe. But secure.

Good, a diversified portfolio is the best way to insure against market risk... but it doesn't excuse criminal behavior on the part of your fund managers (or anyone with access to the money). Qui Gon at least has clarified that he thinks what Lay did was criminal ... do you think he's innocent?

***BelichickFan*** · 10-18-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Good, a diversified portfolio is the best way to insure against market risk... but it doesn't excuse criminal behavior on the part of your fund managers (or anyone with access to the money). Qui Gon at least has clarified that he thinks what Lay did was criminal ... do you think he's innocent?

Well there's two different discussions here.

- On Lay, yes he probably was guilty and would have rightly gone to jail. However just like "innocent until proven guilty", convictions aren't complete until the appeals process has been completed. So I think this was the correct decision despite his likely guilt - he died before the legal process could complete it's course.

- On those who lost money, I feel bad for them but it was their own doing.

***QuiGon*** · 10-18-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Then the amount the investor should recover is $60,000, not $50,000 (assuming it's even possible to recover the investment).

Well that's kinda the point... the company is bankrupt - how are you going to recover the money...? Oh I agree Lay and Skilling and Fastow (sp?) should be sued for every penny they're worth, but their combined fortunes are a mere fraction of the money lost by investors.

Real World · 10-18-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Good, a diversified portfolio is the best way to insure against market risk... but it doesn't excuse criminal behavior on the part of your fund managers (or anyone with access to the money). Qui Gon at least has clarified that he thinks what Lay did was criminal ... do you think he's innocent?

Lay was a criminal scumbag. I'm trying to figure out why the thread was titled "activist republican judge". Why is everything in this forum an attempt to batter right or left? Everyone knows that the law comes down to precedent. No one screwed up here. The man, Lay, died before he was sentenced. He wasn't dying when the case was being tried, and therefore his death wasn't expected. Had the SEC been doing it's job in the 90's, alot of this crap wouldn't have happened.

Pujo · 10-18-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real World

Lay was a criminal scumbag. I'm trying to figure out why the thread was titled "activist republican judge". Why is everything in this forum an attempt to batter right or left? Everyone knows that the law comes down to precedent. No one screwed up here. The man, Lay, died before he was sentenced. He wasn't dying when the case was being tried, and therefore his death wasn't expected. Had the SEC been doing it's job in the 90's, alot of this crap wouldn't have happened.

The original poster noted the title was a tongue-in-cheek reference to people blasting "activist judges" whenever they disagree with a ruling.

***Harry Boy*** · 10-18-2006, 09:58 AM

Don't speak badly of the dead (Gerry Studds)

Pujo · 10-18-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuiGon

Well that's kinda the point... the company is bankrupt - how are you going to recover the money...? Oh I agree Lay and Skilling and Fastow (sp?) should be sued for every penny they're worth, but their combined fortunes are a mere fraction of the money lost by investors.

Well, as part of the bankruptcy the company has assets that are sold off and used to satisfy creditors (which include common stockholders, even though they're technically not creditors). So each investor is rightfully entitled UP TO the maximum value of their investment.

***BelichickFan*** · 10-18-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

So each investor is rightfully entitled UP TO the maximum value of their investment.

The point is that the money is not there. What's the saying, "you can't get blood from a stone". I bet selling off all assets would acrue about 1% (just a guess) of the "value" that investors and/or employees lost.