Real World

What a bunch of loons. Mexico is an ambarassment. The government there should worry more about why so many flee the country, than they should about what we do with our own border. Mexico is a joke on all levels. It'sa country that sits on large amounts of resources, has large appeal as a tourist attraction, borders two oceans, has a beneficial climate, and sits adjacent to the most industrial nation in the world. Mexico should be one of the worlds more powerful countries, instead, it's a 3rd world embarassment. When these loosers open their mouths in our papers trying to tell us what we should do, it pisses me off like crazy.

Build a wall, a fence, a mine field. Shoot to kill. At the very least, shoot first and ask questions only if they're still alive. Invoice all nations of origin of all illegal criminal invaders. Fine all complicit employers, citizens, and governments. Increase documented LEGAL immigration. Social Services to citizens only.

Any questions?


Mexico urges Bush to veto U.S. border fence bill

Mon Oct 2, 2006 3:43pm ET

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico pleaded with President Bush on Monday to veto a Senate proposal to build a fence to keep illegal immigrants out, saying it could backfire by making the border less secure.

The U.S. Senate overwhelmingly backed a bill on Friday to put up about 700 miles of fence, a project Republicans hope will impress voters calling for tougher immigration control ahead of November 7 congressional elections.

"The Mexican government strongly opposes the building of walls in the border area between Mexico and the United States," President Vicente Fox's spokesman Ruben Aguilar told reporters.


"This decision hurts bilateral relations, goes against the spirit of cooperation needed to guarantee security on the common border, creates a climate of tension in border communities," he said.

Aguilar said Mexico would send a diplomatic note to Washington on Monday urging Bush to veto the bill, which requires the president's signature to become law.

Bush had hoped for broad immigration legislation that would create a guest-worker program, which would match workers with jobs Americans are unwilling to do. But House Republicans had pushed for greater emphasis on sealing the porous frontier.

Mexicans are livid about the fence plan, which is seen as a slap in the face to efforts during Fox's near-completed six-year term to come to an agreement with Washington on immigration.


http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

patsfan13

Mr Fox states that the fence will create tensions in the Border areas, My guess is that there will be less tension on the US side of the Border with the fence in place. One of the dems in the debate compared the proposed fence to the Berlin, funny how he couldn't differenate between a fence meant to keep people out to one to keep citizens in. LOL

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

IcyPatriot

I think a fence is a deplorable idea. I hope it's life is temporary as the U.S. works to strengthen border operations. The country that was built on idividual freedoms of speech, politics and religion building a fence shows we are week and feeble.

This fence is a sad day in America ... the America that was proud to tear down another famous wall.

patsfan13

We are a nation of immagrants. Most came in through legal means, which is as it should be. We now have a situation where people come into the country illegally and come in ways that stress our social safty net. It is reasonable for a free country to be able to sevure it border from an invasion. The fence is part of the solution to this problem. the fence hamper the freedom of no Americans. If you haven't been to the southwest, the area cannot reasonably be patrolled by immagration officals.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Real World

You illegal lovers are out to left field. My check is getting hijacked, women are being raped, cops are being killed leaving children fatherless, and you think a fence to protect our citizens is deplorable? Do you have doors at your home? Does your home also have walls? Do you lock your doors? Why? Aren't those walls and doors deplorable? If people want to come here for a better life, tell them to get in line, and respect our laws. My parents did. Everyone else should to.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

I read that Congress voted to build the fence, but didn't allocate the money. Also, a 700 mile fence covers only 1/3rd of our border with Mexico. I think the proposal is nothing more than political grandstanding.

Here's a worthwhile column from a right-wing website:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=52238

Real World

Your a maroon. Right-wing website sure, but written by Ellen Ratner. Right next to her name and picture, incase you didn't notice, it says:

Liberal & Proud


HA! You are a goof!

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

IcyPatriot

Yes...all good points. But my perspective is that the fence is the solution due to ineptness. We've had many years to take care of this problem and we have dropped the ball. The fence represents admission that we've had our head up-our-ass for all too long. I think a fence being built by a free country is deplorable.

5 years out from 9/11 and now we build a fence??? That is crazy. We've had ample time to secure our borders by better means.

BTW ... this fence is useless...it is a sham. There will be ways to get around it without much problem. That is why this is no solution. The best solution is to get the manpower there on the border to secure it like many countries do. I'm amazed that we are probably one of the few countries in the world that does not protect our borders with our military and police.

Right now...and it's just for show...Lebanon's army is protecting their border with Israel. Because Israel infiltrates Lebanon to spy. So why don't they build a fence? They don't because they are smart enough to know how feeble a fence can be....fences are cop outs and a reason to remain lazy.

All the money that will be spent on investigating Foley, all the money spent going after Clinton and all the other scandals....$$$ always available for B.S. politics...5 years after 9/11 our border is still not secure and I am embarrassed by that...I sue am...you should be also.

patsfan13

The fence Israle built between themselves and the occupied territories has done a very good job at curtailing suicide bombers from the Palistinian territories.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Real World

The logic and examples on this board sometimes baffle me. How in gods name can a fence not be a benefit to security? Incase most of you don't in San Diego, where they built a fence, illegal crossing have dropped dramitically, some say as high as 95%. I really can't understand your rationale, "We haven't had one so why build one it's too late" . Say what? Why do business's & people fence in their property? Does locking your door mean no one will rob you? Nope, but does it help impede and prevent you from getting robbed? Yup.

As for Lebanon & Israel, I'm glad you mentioned it. Israel actually does have a fence. It's not on it's border with Lebanon, it's on it's border with the Palestinians. The UN blasted Israel for building it, and actually held council and cited it as illegal. HA! What maroons. Anyhow, Israel built it's fence, and ignored UN litigation. Why? Cuz it dramitaclly reduced infiltrations by Palestinian suicide bombers, and WORKED. Fences work. Obviously you need more than a fence, but it is critical to the overall plan.






So far in 2004, no Israelis have reportedly been killed or wounded by suicide bombings in areas protected by the fence, whereas 19 Israelis have been killed and 102 wounded in suicide attacks in areas without the barrier. Further, the security barrier has resulted in a 90 percent reduction in terrorism originating from the northern West Bank, where the fence has been constructed, compared to previous years since the beginning of this second wave of Palestinian terrorism.

http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Isra...ews_071504.htm

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897