Real World Civics Lesson 9/18/06 - New England Patriots Forums

All_Around_Brown · 09-19-2006, 06:36 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Dec22.html

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Sudan is China's largest overseas oil project. China is Sudan's largest supplier of arms, according to a former Sudan government minister. Chinese-made tanks, fighter planes, bombers, helicopters, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades have intensified Sudan's two-decade-old north-south civil war. A cease-fire is in effect and a peace agreement is expected to be signed by year-end. But the fighting in Sudan's Darfur region rages on, as government-backed Arab militias push African tribes off their land.
China in October signed a $70 billion oil deal with Iran, and the evolving ties between those two countries could complicate U.S. efforts to isolate Iran diplomatically or pressure it to give up its ambitions for nuclear weapons. China is also pursuing oil in Angola.
In the case of Sudan, Africa's largest country, China is in a lucrative partnership that delivers billions of dollars in investment, oil revenue and weapons -- as well as diplomatic protection -- to a government accused by the United States of genocide in Darfur and cited by human rights groups for systematically massacring civilians and chasing them off ancestral lands to clear oil-producing areas. The country once gave safe haven to Osama bin Laden and is listed by Washington as a state supporter of terrorism. U.S. companies are prohibited from investing there.

I know this may be too left leaning for you...but enjoy anyway.

***DarrylS*** · 09-19-2006, 06:48 AM

Didn't George Bush proclaim somewhere that there will be no genocide on his watch??

***patsfan13*** · 09-19-2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

Didn't George Bush proclaim somewhere that there will be no genocide on his watch??

So you are advocating unilaterial US military action rather than going through the wonderful UN?

Or are you gonna complain when Bush does something and complain when he doesn't do what you want>

***DarrylS*** · 09-19-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

So you are advocating unilaterial US military action rather than going through the wonderful UN?

Or are you gonna complain when Bush does something and complain when he doesn't do what you want>

Guess in your wonderful world there is only black and white, in mine there is a whole host of other options working with a third country, direct negotiations, relief... it is shame that the US is watching while this genocide is going on. We did it in Rwanda and are doing it again, it is not partisan politics it is just wrong pure and simple. Wasn't this part of the rational for going into Iraq?

PatsFanInEaglesLand · 09-19-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

So you are advocating unilaterial US military action rather than going through the wonderful UN?

Or are you gonna complain when Bush does something and complain when he doesn't do what you want>

Of course GJ, AAB and NEM are all complain with no solution type of people. If we went there they would complain about not doing anything in Iraq. They have a single goal, get their party elected in November. Just take a look at GJ's last post whole bunch of nothing worded nicely, but said absolutely zero.

***DarrylS*** · 09-19-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInEaglesLand

Of course GJ, AAB and NEM are all complain with no solution type of people. If we went there they would complain about not doing anything in Iraq. They have a single goal, get their party elected in November. Just take a look at GJ's last post whole bunch of nothing worded nicely, but said absolutely zero.

Pardon, but what does the above say, no solutions no answers just the typical knee jerk response. Bottom line we stand by as the world's greatest nation while it is estimated that .5 million have died, and we know about it. Very simple, not the UN's fault or anyone else's we are the worlds greatest nation, the world's greatest food chain and we are doing nothing while this slaughter is going on and women and children are starving to death. All the while we cloth ourselves in some type of christian moral cloak, while forgetting the greatest commandment.

Real World · 09-19-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

Pardon, but what does the above say, no solutions no answers just the typical knee jerk response. Bottom line we stand by as the world's greatest nation while it is estimated that .5 million have died, and we know about it. Very simple, not the UN's fault or anyone else's we are the worlds greatest nation, the world's greatest food chain and we are doing nothing while this slaughter is going on and women and children are starving to death. All the while we cloth ourselves in some type of christian moral cloak, while forgetting the greatest commandment.

While I clearly feel we should be in places like Durfur, I also would like to opine to some that you cannot have it both ways. Some of you have clearly blasted GW for his "illegal" war, and now demand that he unilaterally move into Durfur to combat genocide. So are we free to move unilaterally, or are we bound by UN charters? I'd like to think that we would do what is right, and not what the UN says. Were I president, I'd send a force to Durfur immidiately to at least set up safe zones. However, being in two wars, in Haiti, and having troops stationed accross the globe, we may be stretched a wee bit thin. Beyond that, I can't for one second understand why the UN is not in Durfur. What a joke.

***Patters*** · 09-19-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real World

While I clearly feel we should be in places like Durfur, I also would like to opine to some that you cannot have it both ways. Some of you have clearly blasted GW for his "illegal" war, and now demand that he unilaterally move into Durfur to combat genocide.

The Iraq war's legality is not a major issue, since Congress a long time ago largely ceded its role in declaring war. The main issues with the Iraq war, to liberals, is that it's harming American interests, costing the live of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians, and was based on lies or misinformation. And, yes, we can have it both ways. Some wars are necessary, but it's best that we use our power to influence the UN in this regard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real World

So are we free to move unilaterally, or are we bound by UN charters? I'd like to think that we would do what is right, and not what the UN says. Were I president, I'd send a force to Durfur immidiately to at least set up safe zones. However, being in two wars, in Haiti, and having troops stationed accross the globe, we may be stretched a wee bit thin. Beyond that, I can't for one second understand why the UN is not in Durfur. What a joke.

Yes, we should do what is right, and that's where we disagree. The UN is a puppet of its members, and if the U.S. and other world powers united, we could probably do some good in Darfur.

***patsfan13*** · 09-19-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

The Iraq war's legality is not a major issue, since Congress a long time ago largely ceded its role in declaring war. The main issues with the Iraq war, to liberals, is that it's harming American interests, costing the live of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians, and was based on lies or misinformation. And, yes, we can have it both ways. Some wars are necessary, but it's best that we use our power to influence the UN in this regard.

You might want to check with NEM, Ramsey Clark and John COnyers on that they seem to feel the war is a criminal matter.

Quote:

Yes, we should do what is right, and that's where we disagree. The UN is a puppet of its members, and if the U.S. and other world powers united, we could probably do some good in Darfur.

Hint, the Chinese, and Muslims don't care a bit about muslim genocide directed at Animists and Christians in Sudan.

Real World · 09-19-2006, 12:08 PM

It's amazing that other nations haven't stepped up and taken action. Why is it that it always has to fall on the USA's shoulders. The UN only acts when we pay for it to. What a joke Europe and the UN are. Toothless pussies who like to ***** about what we do, but never take the initiative to do anything amongst themselves. What's going on in Durfur, as what went on in Rawanda, is atrocious. That the western world is not involved in safe guarding areas for civillians is indefensible. How Kofi Annan sleeps at night is beyond me.