PatsFanInEaglesLand

You post the most hateful, foul mouthed name calling messages on this board and you say that about me? Go to hell, NEM.

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QuiGon

This from the guy who considers Saddam Hussein the duly elected President of Iraq.

PATSNUTme

I would think that Mainefan's comment to PFIEL would aslo apply to your post.

I'm not speaking for Mainefan.

Edit: He just did while I was posting this.

QuiGon

Come on, MaineFan, you know darn well that when people refer to Iraq or Vietnam or whatever as a "quagmire" they aren't sitting there with a dictionary in their hands saying "I only mean it is a predicament or a precarious situation."

QuiGon

Amen to that. Let it never be forgotten that the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Iranians, etc, will stop at nothing short of the complete elimination and/or annihilation of the State of Israel. Any talk of the "Palestinian people just want their land and then we will have peace" is just a complete load of bullcrap.

Furthermore, let it not be forgotten that these people are very much in bed with each other. As noted in today's Globe, it is not a coincidence that the Hezbollah acted on the same day Iran's decision was due to be presented to the UN.

I wouldn't be surprised if Israel uses this current skirmish as an excuse to finally attack Iran's nuclear reactors. If they decide to do that, then may the Lord be with them on their noble and righteous mission.

Mainefan

Yes, QuiGon. In common current usage, "quagmire" has come to refer to a long, drawn-out, apparently unwinable war. I don't know if you think Iraq fits that description, but I think you have to admit that it doesn't seem wildly unreasonable to use that word in connection with what's happening there.

patsfan13

Well as reported wiht links on another thread in the last month Iraqi's have taken the lead in 90% of operations with 33% involving no US assistanence. The result is 9 (the lowest rate in 2+ years) US fatalities to date this month. That would seem to speak against a quagmire.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

QuiGon

I would say it is meant clearly as having negative connotations, wouldn't you...? Please don't tell me that you call the War in Iraq a "quagmire" you simply mean it to be a "difficult or precarious situation".

NOTE: I am not addressing the point of whether Iraq is a quagmire or not. I am just saying that when someone refers to it as a quagmire, they are using that word with a much more negative connotation that what the dictionary definition might say.

EDIT: I think Mainefan has provided above an excellent definition of what people mean when they use the word "quagmire" to describe the War.

QuiGon

Um, do you ever know what the word "duly" means...?
I agree. It's amazing how shameful the left was then and how shameful the left is now. Here's a question I know you won't answer: Do you consider Jane Fonda a traitor to her country who should be executed...?

QuiGon

I don't want to argue whether or not Iraq is a quagmire (another thread for another day) and I honestly think you have some good points in your post here. While I may not agree entirely, you are correct in saying it is not "wildly unreasonable" to use that word.

I have definitely admitted that while I support the war, it has not been a well run campaign and the blame for that lies at the highest levels of government. And I thank you for agreeing that the common usage of "quagmire" goes beyond what dictionary.com might define it as.