Author Fouad Ajami Says US-Led Invasion of Iraq Was A Noble War - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Blue Collar · 07-09-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

It is hard for me to think of any war as something noble, which makes me suspect of anything this guy would write. War is anything but noble.

Yep, supposedly iraq is becoming less violent, yet the deathrate among civilians is climbing, car bombings are detonating and wiping out the people , turn on the news their talking about the breaking news of escalating car bomb's right now.

Blue Collar · 07-09-2006, 12:25 PM

Here's elo's man on fixing the problem in iraq and the muslim world, Have a listen.

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio...60418-duke.mp3

PatsFanInEaglesLand · 07-09-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Collar

Here's elo's man on fixing the problem in iraq and the muslim world, Have a listen.

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio...60418-duke.mp3

Wow, THAT WAS...............um, someones opinion!. Why the ***** do care what another person's opinion is, you and mediamatters need help. Savage is not an elected official and makes no policy.

Blue Collar · 07-09-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInEaglesLand

Wow, THAT WAS...............um, someones opinion!. Why the ***** do care what another person's opinion is, you and mediamatters need help. Savage is not an elected official and makes no policy.

Look at yourself and the hollywood threads you post in where they are not elected officials and they do not make policy, and you care, hell, I don't listen to hollywood for political advice. I posted about a conservative radio commentator where millions of conservatives learn about politics, that is more relavant. Go pound sand pfeil

***patsfan13*** · 07-09-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Not only that, but weren't we in Iraq because of WMDs and the fact that their use was imminent?? If there were OTHER reasons to invade Iraq, they should have been discussed at the time.

No acctually Bush described Iraqi WMD as a "gathering" threat not an immenant threat. The notion of Iraq as an immenant threat with respect to WMD is a straw man created by the left and the mainstream media to help rationalize their opposition to the war.

Here are the relevant portions of the 2003 SOTU address. Note that the claims about WMD relate to Saddam not accounting for WMD not accounted for under UN agreements, which is true to this day. He also cites that Iraq was harboring and aiding Al Queda terrorist this is undeniable true as evidenced by the presence of Zarqwai described as the "Emir of Iraq" by OBL.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030128-19.html

Quote:

Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself, he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction. For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, even while inspectors were in his country. Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons -- not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.

Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead utter contempt for the United Nations, and for the opinion of the world. The 108 U.N. inspectors were sent to conduct -- were not sent to conduct a scavenger hunt for hidden materials across a country the size of California. The job of the inspectors is to verify that Iraq's regime is disarming. It is up to Iraq to show exactly where it is hiding its banned weapons, lay those weapons out for the world to see, and destroy them as directed. Nothing like this has happened.

The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it. The UN lied?

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.

The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary; he is deceiving. From intelligence sources we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves. Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses.

Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the United Nations. Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists inspectors are supposed to interview. Real scientists have been coached by Iraqi officials on what to say. Intelligence sources indicate that Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with U.N. inspectors in disarming Iraq will be killed, along with their families.

Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks to build and keep weapons of mass destruction. But why? The only possible explanation, the only possible use he could have for those weapons, is to dominate, intimidate, or attack.

With nuclear arms or a full arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, Saddam Hussein could resume his ambitions of conquest in the Middle East and create deadly havoc in that region. And this Congress and the America people must recognize another threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own.

Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes. (Applause.)

Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option. (Applause.)
NOTE Bush says we can't wait until the threat is immenent, which implies the threat isn't yet immenent.

The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages -- leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind, or disfigured. Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained -- by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. International human rights groups have catalogued other methods used in the torture chambers of Iraq: electric shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape. If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning. (Applause.)

And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country -- your enemy is ruling your country. (Applause.) And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation. (Applause.)

The world has waited 12 years for Iraq to disarm. America will not accept a serious and mounting threat to our country, and our friends and our allies. The United States will ask the U.N. Security Council to convene on February the 5th to consider the facts of Iraq's ongoing defiance of the world. Secretary of State Powell will present information and intelligence about Iraqi's legal -- Iraq's illegal weapons programs, its attempt to hide those weapons from inspectors, and its links to terrorist groups.

We will consult. But let there be no misunderstanding: If Saddam Hussein does not fully disarm, for the safety of our people and for the peace of the world, we will lead a coalition to disarm him. (Applause.)

...

Sending Americans into battle is the most profound decision a President can make. The technologies of war have changed; the risks and suffering of war have not. For the brave Americans who bear the risk, no victory is free from sorrow. This nation fights reluctantly, because we know the cost and we dread the days of mourning that always come.

Pats726 · 07-09-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

The notion of Iraq as an immenant threat with respect to WMD is a straw man created by the left and the mainstream media to help rationalize their opposition to the war.

Actually it was Bush who made the threat imminent to get Congress to act quickly...rewrite history all you want..but it's a BIG loss...and then you change your mind when there are no WMDs....a classic bait and switch!!!

***patsfan13*** · 07-09-2006, 04:40 PM

Well in the SOTU address he said Saddam wasn't an immenent threat but not be allowed to become one. Apparently congress agreed and voted to let him use force in Iraq. I am not rewriting anything just reporting what was said (and has since been distorted.

Blue Collar · 07-09-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Actually it was Bush who made the threat imminent to get Congress to act quickly...rewrite history all you want..but it's a BIG loss...and then you change your mind when there are no WMDs....a classic bait and switch!!!

It's wmd, no it's not wmd's,i's getting better, itsnow a noble war, they moved the wmd's, they did,they didn't whos' on first ,I don't know, exactly

repeat and rinse repeat and rinse don't repeat and rinse exactly

who's on first I don't know, exactly

Huh what doh exactly

***patsfan13*** · 07-09-2006, 05:15 PM

I empathize with your inability to follow the written word

, it must be from watching too many truncated video clips, an attention deficit disorder kind of deal.

Blue Collar · 07-09-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

I empathize with your inability to follow the written word

, it must be from watching too many truncated video clips, an attention deficit disorder kind of deal.

Your all about spinning, you constantly do this, it causes headaches.
That, who's on first skit is you ok AAAAAABBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOT.
I honestly think you do it, to disagree and keep the conversation going in circles. I remember your post in turds shut the forum down thread, and you said you like to disagree in this forum that's what makes it interesting. THAT'S what you do twist and spin to keep it lively