Ku Klux Klan wins approval to protest Iraq war - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

***patsfan13*** · 07-04-2006, 02:16 PM

[QUOTE=Mainefan]Patsfan13, you cited a UN report and that's what I'd like to know about. I keep hearing claims, but fail to see any supporting evidence. Even the Bush administration has not made the claims you think you've found in a UN document.[/wuote]

please see my post above

Quote:

Patsnutme, I don't believe I have made your acquaintance, and since you don't know me, you have no idea what price I might have paid to live in America. Suffice it to say that I served my time in the US military. I see no reason to be more specific.

My point to you is that anything is worth the price if you don't have to pay for it. Was the Iraq war worth the price to the parents of the 2500 US soldiers who have died there? What about to the 50,000 Iraqi civilians who have lost their lives in the war? Do you think they'd say the democracy we've given them was worth the price?

Was it worth the price to alienate for generations the entire Moslem world? Was it worth the price to sacrifice the world's opinion of the United States as the world's moral leader? Was it worth the price to take our eye off Afghanistan and put it at risk--again? Was it worth the price to create a regime in Iraq that gives women fewer rights than they had under Saddam? Was it worth the billions it cost to depose a dictator and leave a civil war in its place? Was it worth the price to demonstrate to the world just how weak we are, militarily and politically?

Speaking of unsupported claims, how do you establish we have alienated 4 generations of muslims.

The demonstation if any weakness politically is at the foot of the dems.

Quote:

If you're calculating the value by today's results, there's no way it was worth the price. Might it someday turn out to have been worth the price? Only history knows.

But the casual remark "It was worth the price" is unsupportable, assumptive and partisan. It does not rise to the level of thoughtful analysis.

The same type of second guessing could have been done during WW2.

mikey · 07-04-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

Actually I just can across this stuff while googleing today. I was mistaken I saw refrences to USSCOM mobbers no a report from them they weren't in IRaq until very late in the ISG process.

BTW did you actually read any of the articles?

I'll bet you didn't. Right?

This is not the first time you have posted deceptive and unsubstantiated statements about WMD and Al-Qaeda link to Saddam Hussein.

.

***Harry Boy*** · 07-04-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInEaglesLand

NEM is now on the same side as the KKK and jew-haters like Cindy Sheehan, this is priceless and well deserved.

Now all the sore loser Bush haters will be all "gooey & ga ga" with the "Klan Kluckers".

"Hey Uncle Teddy, bring a Klucker home to dinner"

Mainefan · 07-04-2006, 02:36 PM

Patsfan13,

When you have a UN report, I will read it.

I didn't say "four generations," when referring to Muslim hostility. I said "for generations," meaning far into the future. No one can predict how far, but I hope you're willing to admit that our actions in Iraq haven't won the hearts and minds of the Muslim world.

I don't think any American wondered, during WW II, if it was worth the cost. We all realized that we had no choice. That's why we sacrificed gladly. We submitted to food and gas rationing, we bought war bonds, we sent our women to work in factories at a time that violated social custom, we turned in our spare pots and pans to be melted down and used to make airplanes and much else.

Our invasion of Iraq, however, was our choice. George Bush's choice, in particular. Iraq had not attacked us. He made that choice not for the stated reason--fear of WMD--but to make a reality out of the neo-con theory of contagious democracy. The WMD stuff, as Paul Wolfowitz has said, was the reason offered to the public.

The demonstration of political weakness I was referring to is our flagrant inability to win the support of the Western world, and indeed, to incite its almost universal opposition. We tried to bully them into it and when they didn't work, we insulted them, we spoke about them with open contempt and guess what, they still didn't think we were doing the right thing. This is not "at the foot" of the Democrats. It is the personal and particular doing of George Bush, Condi Rice and Donald Rumsfeld.

I hope I've made my thoughts clearer.

Blue Collar · 07-04-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Boy

Now all the sore loser Bush haters will be all "gooey & ga ga" with the "Klan Kluckers".

"Hey Uncle Teddy, bring a Klucker home to dinner"

Harry is this you singing

http://www.micetrap.net/mp3s/JRQuitY...*inNigger!.mp3

Mainefan · 07-04-2006, 02:39 PM

Harry Boy, your posts are deteriorating in intelligence and insight. And considering how low they were to begin with, that is truly worrisome.

***patsfan13*** · 07-04-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

This is not the first time you have posted deceptive and unsubstantiated statements about WMD and Al-Qaeda link to Saddam Hussein.

.

Actually all these link are new today, I have posted other links based on captured ISS documents. I see you didn't read any of the links. Do you have any documents disputing the data?

The case of Atta going to the Chezk republic is quite clear. for example.

You stating that in your opinion these doucuments are'deceptive' have nothing to do owith their accuracy.

You don't believe any evidence because it contradicts you preconceptions and political agenda.

***patsfan13*** · 07-04-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainefan

Patsfan13,

When you have a UN report, I will read it.

You unwillingness to consider other sources is duly noted.

Quote:

I didn't say "four generations," when referring to Muslim hostility. I said "for generations," meaning far into the future. No one can predict how far, but I hope you're willing to admit that our actions in Iraq haven't won the hearts and minds of the Muslim world.

My mistake. I don't feel the level of hostility to the US is any greater now than beofre 9-11. I do think there are indications that Al Queda's actions in Iraq has lowered their approval rating in the Muslim world however. When the war is won and the Iraqi gov is providing the security, I think the US establishing a free Iraqwill be noted and approved of in much of the muslim world.

Quote:

I don't think any American wondered, during WW II, if it was worth the cost. We all realized that we had no choice. That's why we sacrificed gladly. We submitted to food and gas rationing, we bought war bonds, we sent our women to work in factories at a time that violated social custom, we turned in our spare pots and pans to be melted down and used to make airplanes and much else.

Certainly the press and opposition party didn't try to undermine the courtries war effort for political gain during WW2. they way they are today.

Quote:

Our invasion of Iraq, however, was our choice. George Bush's choice, in particular. Iraq had not attacked us. He made that choice not for the stated reason--fear of WMD--but to make a reality out of the neo-con theory of contagious democracy. The WMD stuff, as Paul Wolfowitz has said, was the reason offered to the public.

Clearly this was a pre emptive invasion. The WMD was seized upon by the war's opponents as being the only reason for the invasion even though this was never true. There was the support Saddam provided to terorist groups over the years. This and surrounding Iran were the key reasons. As we see dealing with a rouge state after they have aquired nukes is far more difficult (see PRNK and Iran).

Quote:

The demonstration of political weakness I was referring to is our flagrant inability to win the support of the Western world, and indeed, to incite its almost universal opposition. We tried to bully them into it and when they didn't work, we insulted them, we spoke about them with open contempt and guess what, they still didn't think we were doing the right thing. This is not "at the foot" of the Democrats. It is the personal and particular doing of George Bush, Condi Rice and Donald Rumsfeld.

I hope I've made my thoughts clearer.

Reagan was unpopular when he confronted the evil empire and Churchill was very unpopular before ww2 ,they turned out to be right though. The Muslim populations in Europe has neutered them politically

mikey · 07-04-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

Accoring to the UN reports (2004) they were moved out of the country.

That was your statement.

You even put the year 2004.

Is that a true or a false statement??

I just need a one-word response: True or False.

.

***PATSNUTme*** · 07-04-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainefan

Patsnutme, I don't believe I have made your acquaintance, and since you don't know me, you have no idea what price I might have paid to live in America. Suffice it to say that I served my time in the US military. I see no reason to be more specific.

My point to you is that anything is worth the price if you don't have to pay for it. Was the Iraq war worth the price to the parents of the 2500 US soldiers who have died there? What about to the 50,000 Iraqi civilians who have lost their lives in the war? Do you think they'd say the democracy we've given them was worth the price?

But the casual remark "It was worth the price" is unsupportable, assumptive and partisan. It does not rise to the level of thoughtful analysis.

You were the one who asked me what price I paid. I don't want to drag up the past either, however, serving in combat gives a person the knowledge of what others are going through. Therefore my remarks were anything but casual.

Also, I am not a partisan. I do have a brain and I can think for mysef. I owe nothing to either political party, and to me, unlike others, this is not a political issue.

I've stated this before on other posts. I don't consider people who are againts this war to be unpatriotic or unamerican. It would be nice if the ones who are againts it had the same attitude.

For the reasons that I gave, which no one has addressed as being wrong, I stand by my statement that it has been worth it,so far. I may not think the same when the final outcome has been reached.

Questioning the "price' that someone "paid' is just another way, and a very transparent way, of questioning someones patriotism or even worst uncaring about the brave men and women who are serving in today's military.

You might want to choose your words more carefully in the future.