patsfan13

Disagree, showing weakness makes the terrorist stronger. Pulling out of Mogadeshuconvinced Bin Laden that America was weak and would run if 'punched in the nose', he has said that convinced him to go forward with the 9-11 plan

The world alwayshas Anti American feelings we are envyed, nothing new. We were pitied after 9-11, I would rather that our enemies fear us than our friends pity us. The deficit isn't a record as a % of GDP, but congress (without active resistiance from the WH) has spent far too much.

As to the IRaqi people.Refugee camps in the MIddle East are emptying out as Iraqi's return home. Peopleare voting with their feet and disagree. I would also note that Saddam will killing Iraqi's on a regular basis, there is at least the promise that as the insurgency is ended this will end. Under Saddam killing was SOP.

Clinton's foreign policy and lack of response to Al Queda led to 9-11, N Korea gett Nukes and Libya getting their program off the ground. Lack of action while your enemies attack you isn't peace.

One other accomplishment of the Liberation of Iraq. Ghaddfi gave up his nuke program after he saw that Bush meant business, he choose not to take the path Saddam did.THat wouldn't have happened if we didn't show we meant business.

N Korea had nukes when Bush came into office,that horse was out of the barn. He has tried to engageChina who Kim relies on for his existence to try to keep him under control. Clinton enteredi nto a deal the N Koreans went on with business as usual and we did nothing.

In Iran we are trying to work Internationally to deal with the problem, Bush hasn't agreed to anything with Iran yet. Oh BTW are you suggesting that Bush should act unilaterally with respect to N Korea and Iran? I thought the libs were big on international cooperation?

One more thing,the canard that Iraq created 'more terrorist.I disagree. Weakness creates more terrorist. Theletter from Zarqwai indicated they were having trouble recuiting. Zarwahiri's latest tapes are begging for more Mujhadeen. IF we do what Murtha and Kerry want, the terrorist will feel they have won by driving a weak AMerica out of Iraq. They will get tons of new jihadist. Think of the bandwagon effect when a sports team wins some championships.

Alway fun to talk with you Patters.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

patsfan13

Funny I actually have more regard for the dems who voted against the war initally (like KKK Byrd eg) or the ones like Hillary (can't believe I'm saying this )who stick by their decision while still critizing the conduct of the war.

Net Net the war garnered >2/3 votein both houses, that vote was affirmed in the 2004 election.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

mgcolby

That is ironic, so in actuallity less Democratic senators voted to set a time frame for withdrawing troops from Iraq than voted against going to war with Iraq. Interesting, its strange, but I hear more than 13 senators talking about withdrawel yet only 13 votes. So who is believing the BS that their party feeds them?

"We need to pull out now, but I won't vote for it!"

Me thinks some folks are being took!

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Hey, Bill you're wasting Brady's prime years......oh wait....
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patsfan13

But they voted yes, beofre they voted no, and they voted to withdraw before they voted not to withdraw. They really really care and everythig.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Blue Collar

This is a test of the emergency WMD broadcast system. This is only a test. If this had been an actual alert, pigs would fly and hell would have frozen over.

mgcolby

Whoops I need to reword that! Let me edit my post to read

Less Dem Senators, voted for withdrawing from Iraq, than voted for against going to war with Iraq.


That is what I meant to say!

__________________
Hey, Bill you're wasting Brady's prime years......oh wait....
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Patters

I agree we don't want to show weakness. It makes sense for our Afghanistan campaign to continue and for our intelligence and policing efforts to continue. The war, however, is doing more harm than good.

Anti-American feeling is on the rise, and it does represent an economic, political, and security issue. We should not take it for granted, or we will simply give rise to another generation of terrorists.

Saddam was ruthless in the way he put down civil war, fought with Iran, and got rid of his political enemies. It's not bad that he's gone, though so far we've replaced it with something worse. While people are voting, the fact is that innocent people are dying every day and the government is holed up in the Green Zone with very little power even in Baghdad.

Clinton did his job and kept us relatively safe. The evidence suggests that Clinton (and Bush I) were effective at getting Saddam to end his WMD development. North Korea which started its nuclear weapons program under Reagan is in the same state as Iran, more or less, and Clinton made more progress than Bush has. Bush has had 6 years with North Korea, and we see them getting more belligerent and more dangerous.

That is an accomplishment, true, but Qadaffi really hasn't done much since Reagan bombed Libya, and had already taken steps to resolve his predicament while Clinton was in office. Bush did speed along the process of rapprochement and deserves credit for recognizing Libya and opening an embassy there.

[QUOTE=patsfan13]N Korea had nukes when Bush came into office,that horse was out of the barn. He has tried to engage China who Kim relies on for his existence to try to keep him under control. Clinton entered nto a deal the N Koreans went on with business as usual and we did nothing.[/quote[

It was under Clinton that we began to seriously address and deal with North Korea. North Korea cooperated on and off during Clinton's administration, and then stopped cooperating completely under Bush. It's been 6 years since Bush has been in office, and no progress at all has been made.

No, I support Bush's efforts on Iran, and I think he needs to do the same with North Korea. It's better to act as part of an international coalition, but if North Korea refuses, then we have no choice but to act unilaterally, but we should put our energy into negotiating. Instead, we have done next to nothing until the media told us that North Korea was getting ready to test an ICBM type missile.

We need to fight terrorism, but war won't work on them anymore than it will work as a means of fighting ordinary murderers. The terrorists will think we are weak if we leave and do nothing else, but no one is proposing that. Israel was not at war with Palestine, yet has been quite effective in fighting terrorism by targeted strikes, good intelligence, and, in effect, policing. In addition, Israel has struck a rational tone with their enemies and is actually slowly giving their enemies a nation.

You too, patsfans13.

Blue Collar

One of the key players, paul wolfowitz.

http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/96unclass/davis.htm

Blue Collar

Frontline

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../pentagon/view

Blue Collar

Anyone check and read the links I provided and have an opinion ,they might like to exspress?