JackBauer

Very true. This is a guy, after all, who doesn't know that Constitutional rights apply to non-citizens, thinks Jimmy Carter is the worst president in US history, and apparently genuinely believes that Obama hates the military.

Real World

Pretty horrible thing to say pal.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

DarrylS

Why comment then?? and get yourself all in a dither.....

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"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

Wolfpack

It would have made for great fodder for Bush's political enemies, been the subject of late night comedic monologues, etc, etc. Would it have made the difference in 2000? Well, 2000 was so close that an inappropriately timed sneeze could have made the difference, so something like this which would have ultimately resulted in negative press may have swayed a couple thousand people (out of the tens of millions who voted) which may have changed things around a bit.

We'll never know.

chicowalker

You are absolutely right, on all of this.

Of course not (and I haven't). In fact, in an earlier conversation, perhaps on this topic, I realized that I was applying the bigot label incorrectly and admitted that. I do think most if not all opposed to gay marriage are showing prejudice, but that doesn't make them bigots (though many certainly are -- as indicated earlier in this thread, for example).

Personally, I think Obama is either fundamentally wrong on the issue or he is doing what he believes to be politically expedient. Unless the latter is actually a ploy of some sort (which I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt on), he is being weak. Either way (wrong or weak), I consider it one of many things I've disliked about his presidency thus far.

(and to the earlier point re bigotry v prejudice, of the 4 Pres/VP candidates, my sense is that 3 of the 4 are not bigots - though they're prejudiced on this matter)

Ah, now that is a much more accurate read. I'm not sure if those are precisely the terms, that's the general idea -- I guess how I actually view it is something good resulting from something that is inevitable.

Perhaps, but I'm not aware of any beliefs of that type that are so clearly delineated by age.

I guess I see a couple issues with the "good people" concept, though. First, I agree that there are probably many seemingly good people who have deep convictions on this. However, some of those people probably are bigots. Just as with the case of race, otherwise "good" people can harbor pretty disgusting views on various matters.

Beyond them, however, are those people who actually are pretty good people, but for whatever reason, they have an issue not so much with homosexuals as with gay marriage. But I have yet to hear any substance behind their objections. It's purely subjective and often emotional. Yes, those views may often be due to religion, but marriage isn't solely a religious institution in our country.

Personally, I say we should get government out of marriage entirely. Leave marriage to religious institutions or as a private matter. Replace the government institution currently known as "marriage" with civil union, for both heterosexual and homosexual couples.

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By the way, are you opposed to gay marriage (marriage as legal institution, to be clear)? If so, can you provide any legitimate rationale for the government only to recognize heterosexual couples as being married?

chicowalker

No, not really. Just demographics.

Real World

So you're hoping that 70% of voting blacks in California drop dead. Nice!

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

PatsWSB47

[QUOTE=chicowalker;1820106]

Not as a legal institution because of the denial of many privilages legal marriges provide people.

chicowalker

I said nothing of the sort.

If you really think I said that, please quote that part of my post rather than making unfounded accusations.

khayos

I love the ridiculousness of the assumption that anyone opposing gay marriage is "ignorant". Many of us are actually well-informed. We just disagree.