Conservatives agree: the stimulus worked - New England Patriots Forums

JackBauer · 01-07-2010, 12:43 PM

Well, at least the American Enterprise Institute does:

Quote:

The real economy also responded to the massive stimulus but remained heavily dependent on it. In the United States, growth during the second half of 2009 probably averaged about 3 percent. Absent temporary fiscal stimulus and inventory rebuilding, which taken together added about 4 percentage points to U.S. growth, the economy would have contracted at about a 1 percent annual rate during the second half of 2009.

AEI Says Stimulus Boosted Economy By 4% | The New Republic

First one to invent an excuse to downplay this wins!

PatriotsReign · 01-07-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

Well, at least the American Enterprise Institute does:

AEI Says Stimulus Boosted Economy By 4% | The New Republic

First one to invent an excuse to downplay this wins!

Nice try Jack....

Yes, it worked. The stimulus ARTIFICIALLY inflated the economy. But since "bubbles" or over-inflation of our economy AND excess debt is the disease that caused this mess, is that a good thing?

The real estate market is likely headed toward a "double-dip" decline. Part of the reason it didn't dip further is due to the first time home buyer's credit. The BEST thing for the RE market would be for it to find it's natural bottom. That is when home sales will truly turn around.

Bandaids Jack....just bandaids.

JackBauer · 01-07-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

Nice try Jack....

Yes, it worked. The stimulus ARTIFICIALLY inflated the economy.

Tautology? That's the entire point of an economic stimulus. It's like arguing that defibrillators ARTIFICIALLY revived the patient in cardiac arrest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

But since "bubbles" or over-inflation of our economy AND excess debt is the disease that caused this mess, is that a good thing?

I disagree. What got us into this mess was unfettered greed combined with a lack of regulation and oversight. How does the national debt figure into the equation?

PatriotsReign · 01-07-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

Tautology? That's the entire point of an economic stimulus. It's like arguing that defibrillators ARTIFICIALLY revived the patient in cardiac arrest.

I disagree. What got us into this mess was unfettered greed combined with a lack of regulation and oversight. How does the national debt figure into the equation?

Are you asking me this because you want to know?

You tell me how you think it figures in and I'll let you know if you right.

The RESULT of greed and lack of regulation was the largest bubble economy in US history....that's not debateable Jack. Personally, I believe allowing the markets to find their natural bottom is the shortest way out. That said, I also believe we need much more regulation of the financial markets.

I believe in the old ways of lending money. Either you are qualified or you're not. In good times or bad, the standard should be the same.

From a common sense perspective, high deficits aren't good for the economy. Micro it down to a personal level and we'll agree it's not a good idea to carry excessive debt. Why would be ok on a macro-national economic perspective?

JackBauer · 01-07-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

Are you asking me this because you want to know?

You tell me how you think it figures in and I'll let you know if you right.

The RESULT of greed and lack of regulation was the largest bubble economy in US history....that's not debateable Jack. Personally, I believe allowing the markets to find their natural bottom is the shortest way out. That said, I also believe we need much more regulation of the financial markets.

I believe in the old ways of lending money. Either you are qualified or you're not. In good times or bad, the standard should be the same.

From a common sense perspective, high deficits aren't good for the economy. Micro it down to a personal level and we'll agree it's not a good idea to carry excessive debt. Why would be ok on a macro-national economic perspective?

Look, I agree with much of what you've said. Obama has stated that the next SOTU address will focus on policies and ideas to reduce the budget deficit.

But look at it from his perspective. You can't just come out and say "I realize many of you are suffering right now, but really the best thing for all of us is to do absolutely nothing and let things run their course."

With all of the ginned up outrage directed at Obama about this and that, can you imagine what things would be like now if everyone had merely sat on their hands? My perspective was that the stimulus was a worthy and effective short-term instrument to keep the economy afloat. That doesn't at all mean that there aren't deeper structural and systemic issues that will need to be corrected in the future.

Real World · 01-07-2010, 01:36 PM

Handing a homeless guy a $100, and sending a into a store to spendi t, is "stimulus". Anytime someone injects $700 or so Billion into the economy, there will obviously be some sort of artificial bump. The point of contention for most, is how that money is spent, as opposed to simple spending it. Are you better off handing it to the homeless drunk, or investing it to rehab and old bridge, or school. I'd think the latter makes more sense than the former. Afterall, once the homeless drunk consumes the Slim Jims, Twinkies, and a couple of bottles of hooch, there isn't much left moving forward.

PatriotsReign · 01-07-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

Look, I agree with much of what you've said. Obama has stated that the next SOTU address will focus on policies and ideas to reduce the budget deficit.

But look at it from his perspective. You can't just come out and say "I realize many of you are suffering right now, but really the best thing for all of us is to do absolutely nothing and let things run their course."

With all of the ginned up outrage directed at Obama about this and that, can you imagine what things would be like now if everyone had merely sat on their hands? My perspective was that the stimulus was a worthy and effective short-term instrument to keep the economy afloat. That doesn't at all mean that there aren't deeper structural and systemic issues that will need to be corrected in the future.

Well, we prolly agree on more than meets the eye. I'm actually more ok with the stimulus than I am with bailing out the banks and the auto co's. I think we could have allowed more big banks to fail. But it's too late

I agree with your point regarding Obama being in a lose/lose situation with bailouts/stimulus'....I don't envy him at all. I also believe that when all is said & done, this will shake out well for the people. We've sent a strong message to our representatives and this will continue in the voting booths in the next 3 years. That message will be loud & clear and fairly simple....

"Politicians have no inherent rights to run the country as they see fit. Our opinion is important, and you better listen"