Baby, it's COLD outside! - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

There is no proof of course that any of those things will happen.

Regardless of the fact that I never said there was...

ljuneau · 01-04-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdaniels7114

A region getting stronger and more frequent hurricanes is precisely a matter of climate. Why do you insist on being this obtuse?

And if the world is experiencing a record-breaking cold season, is that weather or just bad luck for you?

Winter Could Be Worst in 25 Years for USA...
CHILL MAP...
3 Deaths Due To Cold in Memphis...
Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'...
Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'...
Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years...
Historic ice build-up shuts down NJ nuclear power plant...
Beijing -- coldest in 40 years...
Miami shivers from coldest weather in decade...

It's crazy to believe there are still MMGW whackos out there. I guess it's easier being a fool than have the courage to admit you were wrong.

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klinefan

Gore observing Katrina and saying it's caused by MMGW and we can expect more is the EXACT SAME as someone observing it's cold out and doubting MMGW.

He took one event and extrapolated it.

Since he said that, there's been record low hurricane activity in the gulf. So he was exactly wrong. But no, 5 years isn't long enough...that's WEATHER, not climate.

Incorrect.

Observing hurricane seasons over the course of, say, a decade, which can and has been done, is wholly different from observing that temperatures are colder in a region of the United States.

FWIW, I'm not endorsing Gore's statement nor endorsing the theory that MMGW will result in increased hurricane activity. But that doesn't alter the merit of the argument that PF13's comparison was erroneous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by klinefan

Why did we come out of an ice age? CO2? Were people driving SUVs then? Greenland used to be green, now it's covered in ice. What happened? They grew grapes in the UK during the Roman times, what happened?

How has climate changed in the past without big bad american to blame for it? If it changed in the past, why do you assume the current change is due to the US and its input of CO2?

1) No one is blaming MMGW solely on the US's input of CO2.

2) Such cycles have indeed occurred in the past. The notion behind MMGW is that massively increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere will hasten and increase the severity of the cycle.

***Wolfpack*** · 01-04-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

You might want to look up the definition of that expression, because it seems you frequently use it in situations where it isn't warranted. Unless you're intending it as an expression of gratitude when others carry your water for you.

No, I know exactly what it means and why is was warrented in the situation to which I applied it in this particular instance.

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljuneau

And if the world is experiencing a record-breaking cold season, is that weather or just bad luck for you?

Winter Could Be Worst in 25 Years for USA...
CHILL MAP...
3 Deaths Due To Cold in Memphis...
Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'...
Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'...
Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years...
Historic ice build-up shuts down NJ nuclear power plant...
Beijing -- coldest in 40 years...
Miami shivers from coldest weather in decade...

It's crazy to believe there are still MMGW whackos out there. I guess it's easier being a fool than have the courage to admit you were wrong.

If 11 of the last 13 years were the hottest on record, what does the long-term trend indicate to you?

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Bullcrap. Whenever we have record breaking heat waves (which hasn't happened for quite some time, but stay with me here) the MMGW alarmists make sure that data gets shoved down our throats. But now that we are having record breaking cold streaks, all you MMGW alarmists want to do is say "oh, that's just the weather."

That's nice. Have I ever made this argument? If not, I fail to see how this is relevant.

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Oh, I understand the difference perfectly - at least the way you use the terms. Climate is any data that supports your position, weather is any data that supports mine.

And for the past 10 years, there has sure been a lot of weather but very little climate.

Again, that's not true. And if you bothered to educate yourself on the substantive meanings of the terms, you'd understand that to be the case.

JackBauer · 01-04-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

No, I know exactly what it means and why is was warrented in the situation to which I applied it in this particular instance.

Oh, word. So this is some sort of shared pride in being off-base. Gotcha.

alvinnf · 01-04-2010, 08:17 PM

Humans, we are all so self important. We are so self centered we attribute everything to either our greatness or mistakes. It's pathetic, MMGW, ooh I am scared. Sounds like another attempt by the MAN to bring me down. We are so self important, so self important........ When are people going to wake up and realize they are just a blip on some omnipotent radar. Enjoy what you have, not because the end is near, but rather because you have anything at all. Everything else is just a Man Made Ruse! Or MMR!!

JackBauer · 01-05-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljuneau

And if the world is experiencing a record-breaking cold season, is that weather or just bad luck for you?

Winter Could Be Worst in 25 Years for USA...
CHILL MAP...
3 Deaths Due To Cold in Memphis...
Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'...
Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'...
Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years...
Historic ice build-up shuts down NJ nuclear power plant...
Beijing -- coldest in 40 years...
Miami shivers from coldest weather in decade...

It's crazy to believe there are still MMGW whackos out there. I guess it's easier being a fool than have the courage to admit you were wrong.

To follow up on the point that nothing you've posted disproves or undermines the specter of climate change:

Quote:

Record lows, heavy snowfall, the works. Sadly, this doesn't prove global warming is fake. Long-term temperature trends do allow for short-term variation. A warming planet will still experience plenty of record lows.

<snip>

Even though the 2000s were the hottest decade on record, there were a lot of record lows set in the United States during that time. It's just that there were even more record highs—and the ratio of highs to lows was greater than the ratio during the 1990s, which was, in turn, greater than the ratio during the 1980s, and so on. Note also that the United States is just a small patch of the globe, and while we're bracing ourselves against freakish cold, the central Pacific has been seeing freakish highs. The thing to watch is the overall trend.

And on that note, it's odd to see sites like Drudge hype all the recent news stories about record U.S. lows. A big reason we know that we're experiencing record colds is because of historical temperature data. The same data that skeptics keep claiming is flawed or forged. The same data showing a clear upward trend in average temperatures over the past 100 years. All of the sudden, that data's become mysteriously reliable...

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-vine/why...-out-right-now