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Nice pics Patters. When I was in Italy this summer, I was hanging out with my cousin who's in the Italian military. He's done tours in Afghanistan and Iraq already. Every time I see him, we talk about his experiences. He constantly talks about what a shlthole Afghanistan is. Primitive is an understatement he says. Mind you, our families are from rural farm countries in the poorer south of Italy, so living on farms, with the smell of manure is something he grew up doing. It's why I can only imagine how bad the place must be. Were he a city guy with central AC for example, he might think simply country life is primitive. At any rate, he said he's going back there next year.
I think part of the problem in Afghanistan, and there are many parts, is how primitive the people there. I believe in 2001 there was something like 80% illiteracy. Don't quote me there, but I do know the number was staggering. Women were forbidden from education IIRC by the Taliban. That means that we're trying to right an intellectually challenged populace. This isn't/wasn't the case in Iraq, where I believe the populace was one of the more educated in the ME. To me, this means that it's the next generation, or coming generation, that we will need to develop, and count on, in order to be successful there. That would mean a 20 year committment to that region. Having 8 years invested, are we willing to invest another 12 or so years there, so that the youth from 2001, can be educated, and handed the keys to a more functional country? The older generation is simply to uneducated, corrupt, and primitive to mature the distance needed to straighten that nation out. IMO anyway.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
...I think part of the problem in Afghanistan, and there are many parts, is how primitive the people there...
... are we willing to invest another 12 or so years there, so that the youth from 2001, can be educated, and handed the keys to a more functional country? The older generation is simply to uneducated, corrupt, and primitive to mature the distance needed to straighten that nation out. IMO anyway.
The only thing worse than spending 8 years there would be spending 12 more.
I boldened one sentence to make my point that we have no obligation there nor do we have the right to "educate" Afghans to "straighten that nation out" while our own people and country slips into a deeper hole than we're already in. I think you'd agree.
From the caption of the photo showing children on a see-saw:
"Jamila, left, plays on a seesaw with children of other female inmates on the prison yard of Pul-e Charkhi prison in Kabul, Afghanistan April 17, 2008. Jamila, age 7, and her mother Najiba who is serving a seven year sentence for adultery, have been in prison for 10 months. There are 226 young children in Afghanistan's prisons, including many who were born there. They have committed no crime, but they live among the country's 304 incarcerated women."
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Why do "WE" have to do anything, why doesn't China, Russia, Nova Scotia or Hollywoods Beloved Cuba do something, Where are those Crooked UN "America Haters"
OBAMA IS JUST ANOTHER BUSH AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIE DAILY UNDER "PRESIDENT BULL*****" BUT ALL IS SILENT FROM THE BUSH HATER WAR PROTESTERS LIKE SLIMEY C0CKROACHES THEY HAVE ALL SCURRIED INTO THEIR DARKENED CORNERS.
SARANDON
SHEEHAN
CLOONEY
JON STEWART
PENN
MURTHA
KERRY
BAG PELOSI
MUSH MOUTH DROOLING MATTHEWS
THE VIEW "PIGS"
BUSH HATING FILTHY SCUMSUCKING VERMIN
DIRTY RATS
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Harry Boy (Genius)
In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself
The bottom line is that we can't win as an occupying force.
The terrain is the worst possible to maintain any form of control
The Pakistan open border provides free access to safe havens anytime the Taliban wants to hibernate.
By putting the troops in fixed fortified camps which are exposed to enemy fire the generals paint a bulleye on the backs of of our Warfighters.
Patroling mountain roads expose them to IED's and ambush
Population is illiterate and has historically detested any occupying force.
WE CAN'T WIN
The only thing worse than spending 8 years there would be spending 12 more.
I boldened one sentence to make my point that we have no obligation there nor do we have the right to "educate" Afghans to "straighten that nation out" while our own people and country slips into a deeper hole than we're already in. I think you'd agree.
From the caption of the photo showing children on a see-saw:
"Jamila, left, plays on a seesaw with children of other female inmates on the prison yard of Pul-e Charkhi prison in Kabul, Afghanistan April 17, 2008. Jamila, age 7, and her mother Najiba who is serving a seven year sentence for adultery, have been in prison for 10 months. There are 226 young children in Afghanistan's prisons, including many who were born there. They have committed no crime, but they live among the country's 304 incarcerated women."
I'm not advocating anything. I'm merely raising some questions, and or making some general points.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
The bottom line is that we can't win as an occupying force.
The terrain is the worst possible to maintain any form of control
The Pakistan open border provides free access to safe havens anytime the Taliban wants to hibernate.
By putting the troops in fixed fortified camps which are exposed to enemy fire the generals paint a bulleye on the backs of of our Warfighters.
Patroling mountain roads expose them to IED's and ambush
Population is illiterate and has historically detested any occupying force.
WE CAN'T WIN
Can't isn't the word I'd use. If we want to, we certainly could. To me it's more a question of do we want to invest what it would take, which would be an extremely long commitment, spanning a generation. I think if it were explained as such to the general public, the majority would say no.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Can't isn't the word I'd use. If we want to, we certainly could. To me it's more a question of do we want to invest what it would take, which would be an extremely long commitment, spanning a generation. I think if it were explained as such to the general public, the majority would say no.
OT: Incredible photos from Afghanistan
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