This is what happens when you privatize healthcare. China, a case study. - New England Patriots Forums

Phokus · 09-30-2009, 08:20 AM

Article: Analysis: Chinese healthcare gap widens. | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

Quote:

Byline: OLGA PIERCE

WASHINGTON, April 10 (UPI) -- Pressing healthcare problems are on the rise just as the Chinese healthcare system is reaching its weakest point in recent history, experts said Tuesday.

The country's ability to shore up its healthcare safety net could have a dramatic impact on China and the rest of the world.

"The current Chinese system has all the downsides of an almost unregulated market in the presence of considerable poverty," said David Blumenthal, director of the Institute for Health Policy at Massachusetts General Hospital.

"That makes the expenses people have to pay tremendously damaging to the health and economic health of the country," he told United Press International.

After decades of significant health and life-expectancy gains, the Chinese government has effectively dismantled its system of universal basic care. In its place is a market-based system where roughly half of urban dwellers have employer-based coverage. Rural areas have been largely left behind: about four in five rural Chinese are uninsured.

For the uninsured in China, access to healthcare is nowhere near guaranteed. Healthcare costs are 40 times higher than they were in the early 1980s, but 58 percent is financed by individual out-of-pocket payments.

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The barefoot doctor system was abolished in 1981 with the end of the commune system of agricultural cooperatives. The new economic policy in China promoted a shift from collectivism to individual production by the family unit.[3] This shift caused a privatization of the medical system, which could not sustain the barefoot doctors.[3] The barefoot doctors were given the option to take a national exam, if they passed they became village doctors, if not they would be village health aides. Village doctors began charging patients for their services,[3] and because of the new economic incentives,[1] they began to shift their focus to treatment of chronic conditions rather than preventative care.[1]

By 1984, village RCMS coverage had dropped from 90% to 4.8%.[2] In 1989 the Chinese government tried to restore a cooperative health care system in the rural provinces by launching a nationwide primary health care program.[2] This effort increased coverage up to 10% by 1993.[2] In 1994 the government established “The Program”, which was an effort to reestablish primary health care coverage for the rural population.[2]]

Going from 90% coverage to 4.8% coverage for the rural poor and bankrupting them in the process, absolutely ridiculous.

Because of the failures of the market based system, China is looking forward to going back to a universal healthcare model that they used to have.

Holy Diver · 09-30-2009, 08:30 AM

do we need to look any further than our own system to see failure? 430% profits for insurers...48 million uninsured, millions of bankruptcies a year....Insured americans denied coverage...

On the flip...

Lets look to the rest of the world at SUCCESS stories....

FRONTLINE | Sick Around the World | Preview Taiwan | PBS

YouTube - FRONTLINE | Sick Around the World | Preview Taiwan | PBS

more: FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

Phokus · 09-30-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Diver

do we need to look any further than our own system to see failure? 430% profits for insurers...48 million uninsured, millions of bankruptcies a year....Insured americans denied coverage...

On the flip...

Lets look to the rest of the world at SUCCESS stories....

FRONTLINE | Sick Around the World | Preview Taiwan | PBS

YouTube - FRONTLINE | Sick Around the World | Preview Taiwan | PBS

more: FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

Yeah but the US has never had universal healthcare. I think China is a great example because they went from universal healthcare to private healthcare and now they're looking to get back to a universal heatlhcare model.

I think the contrast in how effective each model when they transitioned is a great way to hammer in the heads of idiot republicans what a bad idea privatized healthcare is.

State · 09-30-2009, 08:46 AM

God, you're stupid. China has extremes of wealth that are Brobdingnagian. Their private health care is surprisingly good if one has the money. One actually pays out of pocket and can have access to technology like MRIs.

If one is a serf at the fields--with little or no disposable income and living like your ancestors 800 years ago--it sucks being you.

Health care is not a right, it's a commodity like food, clothing, and shelter.

Holy Diver · 09-30-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phokus

Yeah but the US has never had universal healthcare. I think China is a great example because they went from universal healthcare to private healthcare and now they're looking to get back to a universal heatlhcare model.

I think the contrast in how effective each model when they transitioned is a great way to hammer in the heads of idiot republicans what a bad idea privatized healthcare is.

Taiwan didn't have universal care....so they looked to other models and used what worked best. Thats really how we need to look at this problem.

Holy Diver · 09-30-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State

God, you're stupid. China has extremes of wealth that are Brobdingnagian. Their private health care is surprisingly good if one has the money. One actually pays out of pocket and can have access to technology like MRIs.

If one is a serf at the fields--with little or no disposable income and living like your ancestors 800 years ago--it sucks being you.

Health care is not a right, it's a commodity like food, clothing, and shelter.

Does Healthcare fall under the category of the nation's general welfare, like defense?

Is the electricity thats cabled into your home a 'right'? is the water? or are those things part of the 'commons'?

Is capitalism a right?

If so....Is that right MORE or less important that the general welfare of americans, or the defense there of?

You DO understand that the general welfare of all americans is in the constitution....RIGHT?

shhhhhhhhh......

The Constitution of the United States of America
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Stokes · 09-30-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State

Their private health care is surprisingly good if one has the money. One actually pays out of pocket and can have access to technology like MRIs.

If one is a serf at the fields--with little or no disposable income and living like your ancestors 800 years ago--it sucks being you.

I'll ignore some of the inflammatory remarks you made and focus on the meat. So what you're saying is that the private plan is the best option for those that can afford it, while a safety net is needed for those living in poverty? This sounds familiar, no? I think what Phokus is missing is that private health insurance works extremely well for things like access to care and quality of care. Seems to me like the best plans, and the ones that have been some of the most successful worldwide, are those in which private companies provide health insurance with the government acting as a regulator to ensure fairness in coverage etc, provide a watchful eye to keep private companies in check. Seems like countries that have gone to a purely universal, government run system experience problems with access and quality of care, or they operate on a scale so different from what is needed in the US it becomes untenable. That doesn't fit with his view of the "idiot republicans" that point out these problems.

***Harry Boy*** · 09-30-2009, 09:39 AM

Why are so many Americans AGAINST Obamacare......

Holy Diver · 09-30-2009, 09:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Harry Boy

Why are so many Americans AGAINST Obamacare......

so many = 30% ?

last time I checked, 70% is a greater percentage than 30%

I might have to check with my old Logic professor on that....I'll get back to you Harry...

***Harry Boy*** · 09-30-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holy diver

so many = 30% ?

Last time i checked, 70% is a greater percentage than 30%

i might have to check with my old logic professor on that....i'll get back to you harry...

ok............