IcyPatriot

This isn't a religious thread because the thread is about financial backers not wanting to front the money to show it here because evidently we are too religious as a country to give the film any monetary demand ... interesting indeed.

I never understood why Darwin and religion couldn't exist together .. that's just my 2-cents anyways. God didn't write the religious works ... people did ... and they weren't scientists as we well know.

Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America' - Telegraph

Patsfanin Philly

A great retort to this can be found here
Darwin's Connection to Nazi Eugenics Exposed : The Primate Diaries
and just because a horrific regime referenced a scientist's earlier work doesn't mean that Darwin endorsed it...

It's too neat and simple to say that he buried a child so he rejected G-d. Not every bereaved parent rejects a divine being though they may take a view of a G-d that doesn't micromanage. That's for another discussion.

Fogbuster

This is actually a very important topic for discussion. So much happened in the 19th century in terms of sea-change shifts in world views. Not only Darwin, but people like Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler .... many other pivotal figures in the 20th century had their starting point toward "radical change in world view" in the mid to late 19th century.


I've got to go to meeting right now, but this is an excellent topic.


//

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PatsFanInVa

Nevertheless, as I understand it, he had real concerns about the implications of his research. As to losing his faith, the Voyage of the Beagle, death of his daughter, who knows. Apparently in this film it's the death of his daughter that does the trick. (As I recall that was after the Beagle.)

Regardless - I see PFIP has linked to a story putting eugenics, then Nazi applications thereof, at Darwin's door. That is to say, at truth's door. Were there no truth, goes the implied logic, there would be no holocaust.

The truth is, we evolved, as did everything else on Earth. As to eugenics and Nazism, there are quite a few lies conveniently bolted on to the Darwinian truth, particularly in the case of the Nazis. I mean, after the butt-whoopin' Jesse Owens laid on them, you'd think the German people would be ready to embrace the notion of the basic equality of human "races", but noooooo.

Nazis aside (Godwin too,) there are enormously troubling implications of the actual facts of the science. After all, in the 19th century, we as a society thought that noble animals were going about their noble animal business, popping into existence when we had a moment to look, and otherwise just living their lovely little animal lives.

It took attentive study to realize there are species that are hatched on a beach, make a mad dash to the surf, and 99.9% of the time get eaten. But that .1% that doesn't, runs a sub-4.3 40, guaranteed.

What is truly baffling to me is that among the rabid right, we've simultaneously developed "scientific" (or more to the point, "anti-scientific") anti-Darwinism, but accepted social Darwinism, the very fallacy that PFIP points to with the link.

I.e., there are millions of people running around America thinking that man was put here 6,000 years ago by the hand of God, but that if a business fails it must be "survival of the fittest," and if a poor person dies it is "evolution in action." Uh noooo, it might be the best thing that can happen economically (though not stipulated in the abstract,) but it is certainly not a feature of Darwinian evolution.

PFnV

wistahpatsfan

Tis is the worst news I've heard about America in a long time. Worse than the economy, Afghanistan, and Bruschi's retirement. The Dumbing Down of America continues to accellerate like a runaway train and because of that, I'm concerned that we will not be able to recover or keep up. All the other things could have been temporary, but because of our lowering of standards and the constant opiate of media and mindless forms of "emtertainment" we may be done, ant the rest of the world knows it.

Ignorance of natural science and history will be the downfall or this country. While other cultures like China and India embrace science and advancement of knowledge, we will be left in their wake...sick, fat, stupid and religious. I was watching TV with my little one this morning flipping through the channels during breakfast and I couldn't believe the number of preacher money grabs that were on. I just went back and counted at least (commercials might have made me miss a few) 15 shows of preachers of one kind or another and I only have 100 channels (ONLY??!!). Imagine the money pouring through these crooks in this hard times. They must be doing well...as good as package stores and cable companies.

Star Trek Next Generation had a great episode on this subject called "The Game". All you Trekkies out there know the one.

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wistahpatsfan

All true...

The worst and most intractible view (and one I've been wrestling with for years since I travelled) might be that our society is not flexible enough for this flood of knowledge that we have been under for the last 100 years. Other societies may be more suitable because they have had more time to work things out and become established, or they are more homogeneous, or they're smaller. Either way, they seem to get less bogged down with problems than we do. Some advanced societies may have larger hurdles like population control or a lack of natural resources, but our problems change and replace each other on a seemingly rotating basis. One decade, it's WWII, another it's the Red Scare, grappling with civil rights, it's drugs, AIDS, Who We Are (we can't seem to nail that one down) ....We become distracted from the Big Picture very easily here almost as if it's being done on purpose.

We ignore truth in favor of feeling good. You can call it security, if you want. We are a nation who sees the world as not connected to us, and therefor, some kind of threat. I don't know if it's because of our geography or mythology or both, but it definitely sets us apart from others in more ways than one. Don't get me wrong. I've been around, and I would rather be nowhere else than here in North America, but we have to continue to evolve with the rest of the world. We can't hide anymore or we will be relegated to the same fate that other theocracies have found themselves in.

It's fine if people want to "believe" in anything, but it's not fine to pretend that science is not real or that new ideas are inherently bad. Some are. But nothing should be considered automatically wrong because they disagree with mythology.

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PatsFanInVa

Wait wasn't that the one where the whole crew got addicted to a videogame and couldn't function?

Well to counter your analysis, the Argument from Stargate SG-1 is in point, to wit, hallowed be the Auri! (or however you spell it.)

wistahpatsfan

That's the one.
Don't watch SG-1 or Star Trek, for that matter. Not enough time these days.

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PatsFanInVa

I just love imaginative fiction... that's what I love about Fox!

sdaniels7114

Scary, but I think its cyclical. This time is like the anti-60's.

I read somewhere years ago that societies always get a little screwed up around the turn of centuries and even more so around the turn of millenia. Couple in September 11 and its repercussions and it feels sensible that we're out of sorts right now. It won't last.

At some point we'll reverse and cycle back towards secularism and go even further along its path, followed again by a period of religious zealotry that won't be as intense. Over time science will grow stronger and religion weaker until in maybe 70 or 80 years a movie about Darwin won't be such a dangerous topic.

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