"Liberals Going Nowhere With Obama" - New England Patriots Forums

***Leave No Doubt*** · 08-12-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

The sad reality is that all the well-meaning groups and individuals who challenge our permanent war economy and the doctrine of pre-emptive war, who care about sustainable energy, fight for civil liberties and want corporate malfeasance to end, were once again suckered by the Democratic Party. They were had. It is not a new story. The Democrats have been doing this to us since Bill Clinton. It is the same old merry-go-round, only with Obama branding. And if we have not learned by now that the system is broken, that as citizens we do not matter to our political elite, that we live in a corporate state where our welfare and our interests are irrelevant, we are in serious trouble. Our last hope is to step outside of the two-party system and build movements that defy the Democrats and the Republicans. If we fail to do this, we will continue to undergo a corporate coup d’etat in slow motion that will end in feudalism.

Quote:

If a few million of us had had the temerity to stand behind our ideals rather than our illusions and the empty slogans peddled by the Obama campaign, we would have a platform. We forgot that social reform never comes from accommodating the power structure but from frightening it. The Liberty Party, which fought slavery, the suffragists who battled for women’s rights, the labor movement, and the civil rights movement knew that the question was not how do we get good people to rule—those attracted to power tend to be venal mediocrities—but how do we limit the damage the powerful do to us. These mass movements were the engines for social reform, the correctives to our democracy and the true protectors of the rights of citizens. We have surrendered this power.

Truthdig - Reports - Nader Was Right: Liberals Are Going Nowhere With Obama

I couldn't agree more; where are those liberals who fought so hard for the right to a voice? Was it all about just our voice, or the voice of ALL people no matter what they're voice may say?

There's little in THIS liberal administration that I can relate to; this is neo-lib, extremely left, beyond Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Way beyond.

JMHO but liberals need to start taking a long, hard look at what's going on.

Chris Floyd has often been featured in Counterpunch, he's left, and even he understands that Obama's simply a continuation of Bush but on a much larger scale. Floyd's site used to be called "High Crimes and Low Comedy In the BUSH Imperium". Now it's simply called "High Crimes and Low Comedy in the American Imperium". More excellent food for thought: Obama Sends a Signal to the Few Remaining Suckers Who Believe in the Rule of Law

Wildo7 · 08-12-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

There's little in THIS liberal administration that I can relate to; this is neo-lib, extremely left, beyond Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Way beyond.

You must be the most confused poster in this forum. You realize that Hedges is coming from a perspective way to the left of Obama right?

You consistently post from Democracy Now/Amy Goodman, one of the most progressive radio programs in the country, and then start talking about "big government" and repeating right wing slogans as if the articles you link support your case.

I think you should make a greater effort to actually understand the dissent you cite. Those of us who actually voted for Nader would never accuse Obama of being too left wing, that's laughable to anyone with an understanding of political theory and history.

I'm honestly not trying to be a d!ck, but it's damn near impossible to respond to your posts since they are usually murky, contradictory and have no coherent message.

It makes me cringe when you cite a lot of the very sources I rely on and completely butcher the point being made in the article.

***Leave No Doubt*** · 08-12-2009, 07:52 PM

Then don't reply to them.

Wildo7 · 08-12-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leave No Doubt

Then don't reply to them.

As long as you keep butchering the message of articles you cite, I'm gonna point it out.

Sorry that your post made less than zero sense.

***Leave No Doubt*** · 08-12-2009, 08:02 PM

I think You should make a greater effort to stop drawing lines in your partisan sand and start reading with less of a blind eye. There's nothing to twist here, both articles make good points. Meanwhile find something else to bite besides my ankles.

Wildo7 · 08-12-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leave No Doubt

I think You should make a greater effort to stop drawing lines in your partisan sand and start reading with less of a blind eye. There's nothing to twist here, both articles make good points. Meanwhile find something else to bite besides my ankles.

What does this mean? Partisan? I voted for Nader in the past 3 elections. You cite an article claiming that Obama has continued Bush's giveaway's to corporations (which I agree with) and then say that he's "too left wing." This just doesn't make any sense, and it's intellectually dishonest since it's not the point the author was trying to make. Both articles do make good points, you are correct there, unfortunately you didn't seem to understand them.

I mean, did you even bother to read the article you posted:

Quote:

Our task is to build movements that can act as a counterweight to the corporate rape of America. We must opt out of the mainstream. We must articulate and stand behind a viable and uncompromising socialism, one that is firmly and unequivocally on the side of working men and women. We must give up the self-delusion that we can influence the power elite from the inside.

This is in direct opposition to your stated position.

***Leave No Doubt*** · 08-12-2009, 08:18 PM

Obama is far too left-wing for me. The overall point of BOTH articles was to point out that liberals need to think about where Obama's headed, in all respects. If you were as devoted a Floyd reader as you claim to be this conversation wouldn't be taking place.

Their overall point, and mine, are the same. And I don't do p* contests.

***Leave No Doubt*** · 08-12-2009, 08:21 PM

Otherwise, is it more the Reps who need to re-define themselves or is it the liberals?