Explain this "Health Care Savings" thing again - New England Patriots Forums

***BelichickFan*** · 07-15-2009, 07:59 AM

Fine, I'm stupid.

House Plans to Tax Millionaires to Fund U.S. Health-Care Plan - Bloomberg.com

"“We can’t continue to put more and more money into health care,” said Representative Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who runs the House Energy and Commerce Committee."

So the solution to fix putting more and more money into health care is to put another $1.5 Trillion into health care.

***patsfan13*** · 07-15-2009, 08:11 AM

We can be sure the amount for this turkey has been underestimated.

Funny the 'cost savings' never include tort reform, malpractice insurance is a huge factor in medical cost and 'defensive' medicine. However as we know the Trial LAwyers give a huge amount of money to the democrats, so their interest will be protected as the UAW was protected when the Auto companies went into bankruptcy.

***Patters*** · 07-15-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

We can be sure the amount for this turkey has been underestimated.

Funny the 'cost savings' never include tort reform, malpractice insurance is a huge factor in medical cost and 'defensive' medicine. However as we know the Trial Lawyers give a huge amount of money to the democrats, so their interest will be protected as the UAW was protected when the Auto companies went into bankruptcy.

Yeah, let's go after the poor family whose child becomes a vegetable because of medical malpractice. That's the conservative way. Protect the insurance companies and the big hospitals by bringing up the rare case where a jury award is out of whack (and not reduced on appeal). That way, instead of providing people with proper care, insurance companies and hospitals can simply pay the small settlements that conservatives want. This anti-trial lawyer nonsense is against the founding principles of our nation, which are designed to protect all the people, not just the powerful. No wonder conservatism is a bankrupt philosophy that has failed in virtually every one of its objectives from prayer in school to stopping abortion to blocking civil rights for gays to balancing the budget to making torture acceptable and empathy wrong.

***patsfan13*** · 07-15-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Yeah, let's go after the poor family whose child becomes a vegetable because of medical malpractice. That's the conservative way. Protect the insurance companies and the big hospitals by bringing up the rare case where a jury award is out of whack (and not reduced on appeal). That way, instead of providing people with proper care, insurance companies and hospitals can simply pay the small settlements that conservatives want. This anti-trial lawyer nonsense is against the founding principles of our nation, which are designed to protect all the people, not just the powerful. No wonder conservatism is a bankrupt philosophy that has failed in virtually every one of its objectives from prayer in school to stopping abortion to blocking civil rights for gays to balancing the budget to making torture acceptable and empathy wrong.

SO you defend the 'rich' tort reformers who make health care less affordable for middle calss and poor families.

In the case of real malpractice take away the license to practice medicine. Health care shouldn't be a lottery for Rich Trial Lawyers.

***BelichickFan*** · 07-15-2009, 09:26 AM

Patters, how about answering my question. How are we saving money by spending $1.5 Trillion ???

And while you're at it, take a look at this chart :

http://spectator.org/assets/mc/houseDemHC.jpg

and understand and comprehend that the tax increases now are small compared to money that will be needed when the spending actually kicks in; conveniently right after the next Presidential election. The obamans will be able to say how the program hasn't cost that much - right as it's about to explode.

***Patters*** · 07-15-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

SO you defend the 'rich' tort reformers who make health care less affordable for middle class and poor families.

In the case of real malpractice take away the license to practice medicine. Health care shouldn't be a lottery for Rich Trial Lawyers.

I'm against outrageous jury awards, and believe that in general the appeals courts have done a good job adjusting them, and many high awards are now settled without even going to appeal. But, if medical malpractice leads to someone sustaining a lifelong injury that requires constant care, then that gets very expensive, and should be paid for by those who are responsible (or their insurance companies).

This whole issue, I believe, is more right-wing mythmaking that is not supported by the facts. Just as Reagan delivered outrageous lies about welfare queens to make it sound like people on welfare were living in luxury, the right wing lies about medical malpractice to make it sound like millions of people with vague back injuries are living in luxury. The right in my opinion is filled with pathological liars that feed into their own hysteria and prejudices.

The Medical Malpractice Myth by Tom Baker, an excerpt

"In 2003 U.S. businesses paid $27 billion for auto liability insurance premiums, $57 billion for workers’ compensation insurance premiums, and less than $5 billion for products liability insurance premiums. Doctors, hospitals, and other health professionals paid only about $11 billion in medical malpractice insurance premiums."

$11 billion is a drop in the bucket relative to the cost of health care in the United States.

***BelichickFan*** · 07-15-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Yeah, let's go after the poor family whose child becomes a vegetable because of medical malpractice. That's the conservative way. Protect the insurance companies and the big hospitals by bringing up the rare case where a jury award is out of whack (and not reduced on appeal). That way, instead of providing people with proper care, insurance companies and hospitals can simply pay the small settlements that conservatives want. This anti-trial lawyer nonsense is against the founding principles of our nation, which are designed to protect all the people, not just the powerful. No wonder conservatism is a bankrupt philosophy that has failed in virtually every one of its objectives from prayer in school to stopping abortion to blocking civil rights for gays to balancing the budget to making torture acceptable and empathy wrong.

Patters, you are losing it. It's not about that, it's about the Dems being paid off by trial lawyers. We all, poor and rich alike, pay a lot more in insurance and medical bills because of the lawyers you defend so vigorously getting rich. The big awards are the punitive part which have nothing to do with the needs of the injured. Whatever actually injuries are sustained should be paid for; the punitive part should be the loss of the license and/or jail, not huge awards to plaintiffs and lawyers which are often an order of magnitude higher than what's needed for rehab and lost wages.

***Patters*** · 07-15-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelichickFan

Patters, how about answering my question. How are we saving money by spending $1.5 Trillion ???

And while you're at it, take a look at this chart :

http://spectator.org/assets/mc/houseDemHC.jpg

and understand and comprehend that the tax increases now are small compared to money that will be needed when the spending actually kicks in; conveniently right after the next Presidential election. The obamans will be able to say how the program hasn't cost that much - right as it's about to explode.

BF, the argument is that if you take all the money we spend on health care now (private and public expenses) and put it instead into a national health care plan, you'll have money left over.

***BelichickFan*** · 07-15-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

BF, the argument is that if you take all the money we spend on health care now (private and public expenses) and put it instead into a national health care plan, you'll have money left over.

So why are we paying an extra $1.5 TRILLION if we already have more than enough money in the system. That is not a satisfactory answer. Try again.

ljuneau · 07-15-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Yeah, let's go after the poor family whose child becomes a vegetable because of medical malpractice. That's the conservative way. Protect the insurance companies and the big hospitals by bringing up the rare case where a jury award is out of whack (and not reduced on appeal). That way, instead of providing people with proper care, insurance companies and hospitals can simply pay the small settlements that conservatives want. This anti-trial lawyer nonsense is against the founding principles of our nation, which are designed to protect all the people, not just the powerful. No wonder conservatism is a bankrupt philosophy that has failed in virtually every one of its objectives from prayer in school to stopping abortion to blocking civil rights for gays to balancing the budget to making torture acceptable and empathy wrong.

Wow, what whacked logic! You can blame liberalism for killing prayer in schools, encouraging abortion, and trying to block civil rights.

Quote:

Congressional Quarterly reported that, in the House of Representatives, 61% of Democrats (152 for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act as opposed to 80% of Republicans (138 for, 38 against). In the Senate, 69% of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for the Act while 82% of Republicans did (27 for, 6 against). All southern Democrats voted against the Act.

Without Tort reform, the cost of health care will not decrease. Liberals want it both ways - allow litigation over anything and everything, then complain that medical care costs too much. And also accuse insurance companies of being greedy because they want to make a profit for providing the medical community with adequate insurance. That's the liberal way of thinking. Nothing that a little common sense can't expose.