Real World

Is anyone paying attention to what's going on in Honduras? I only began reading about it today. It seems uncertain what the truth is. Is this an illegal coup by the military, or is the military abiding by their Supreme Court's ruling, and constitution? I only know what I've read, so who knows which is true. I certainly couldn't say at this point. Have any of you been following this more closely?

Obama, Chavez, Castro, Noreaga, and some other assorted leaders are calling it illegal.

Obama says Honduran ouster was 'not legal'


The WSJ has an article out that explains, generally, what transpired with the Supreme Court, president, AG, and military general.

O'Grady: Honduras Defends Its Democracy - WSJ.com


I find this very fascinating in the sense that it made me wonder what would happen here, in a similar scenario. What would the military do if the SCOTUS ruled that the presidents actions were unconstitutional, and the military were ordered into action. Interesting stuff.

CNN


Ah, and here we have it maybe? Apparently, term limits just don't appeal to some people. Go figure. Looks like they sell Coke and Pepsi all over the "free" world.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
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Patters

It's a coup unless what happened is permissible under the Honduran constitution. Given the history of so many South American countries, it's always alarming when the military decides to take matters into their own hands. There might have come a time for that to happen, but first all constitutional methods should be exhausted. We may not like Zelaya, but so far no one has accused him of being elected undemocratically. In a democracy, the people have the right to elect idiots, something I think we all agree on.

ljuneau

Honduras Defends Its Democracy

The Wall Street Journal articles details what happened. Basically, Zelaya was trying to pull a Hugo Chavez. The Honduras Supreme Court basically defended their country's constitution. Good for them!

Fogbuster

Exactomondo. This Zelaya guy thinks he can pull a Hoooogo Chavez and change the term limits all by his lonesome, without the Honduran Congress' or Courts' consideration. Can anyone spell "dictatorship"????



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"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."

Patters

Leave it to the right to defend a military coup. This is the same sort of attitude that allowed fascist dictators in Chile, Paraguay, and other states to murder and torture their citizens with US blessing. The Honduras Supreme Court only defended the Constitution if they have the Constitutional right to remove a President, which I rather doubt.

I know nothing about Zelaya, but I'm very glad Obama is backing the rule of law and the democratic systems, rather than return to the dark ages of Reagan when we looked the other way while terrible crimes were committed by the dictators Reagan was in bed with.

Fogbuster

There you go, engaging in petty disinformation again. And pathetically sophomoric disinformation, at that.

Zelaya was trying to change the Honduran Constitution all by himself, even AFTER the Congress and Courts had told him: no changes will be allowed.

It is Zelaya who attempted a coup on the nation of Honduras, no one else. Good that he's gone, and I pray the Honduran Congress, Courts, and military stick to their guns. If someone tries to overthrow the Constitution he or she is a traitor .... "to protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND domestic.....": the oath to uphold the Constitution, given by all officers of the U.S. government, and hopefully also the Honduran government as well.

If Obama backs Zelaya on his power grab, this would be a serious attack on the stated principles of the U.S. Constitution.

Obama impeachment???

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"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."

Patters

There is no situation in our Constitution where the military would arrest and remove a President from the country in the middle of the night. If the President of Honduras acted unconstitutionally, then it was up to their Congress to hold an impeachment vote, at which point civilians authorities would remove the president if he refused to leave. What happened in Honduras is that a democratically elected president was removed by the military. That's just not right. I believe the Honduran Constitution is modeled after ours, but am not sure how it handles impeachment. If it assigns that policing responsibility to the military, then you might have a point, but given Honduras history, I rather doubt it.

Fogbuster

The oath that all military and other officers representing the U.S. government says point blank that we (officers) are sworn to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution from "all enemies, foreign and domestic", and if a person, ANY person -- including a U.S. President -- were to violate the Constitution, we are duty-bound to protect the Constitution using whatever means are necessary.

This Zelaya guy tried legally to change the Honduran Constitution, and he was rebuffed by both the Honduran Congress and the Honduran Courts. Zelaya then tried to change the Constitution to allow himself to run for more terms than the Constitution stipulates. Thus, he has made HIMSELF an enemy of the Honduran Constitution.

So telling that you rail on about the likes of a Pinochet, but when a Zelaya in Honduras, or a Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, or a Bolivian president, or a Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua, or a Castro in Cuba want to forcibly change the Constitutions of those nations, it's all "justified".

Hypocrisy in full, ugly bloom. And yes, it comes from the Left.

An impeachment would be the better way, of course. But who knows the mitigating factors. Perhaps Chavez' threats to use his military from Venezuela????


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"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."

Patters

You don't let the military replace a president. I don't like Chavez, but if the people keep voting for him, c'est la vie. When have American liberals advocated a military coup of a democratically elected president? I think that's a mostly right-wing trait, and frankly it's pretty scary. Thank god the right wing is out of power here.

Fogbuster

We don't know yet the reason the Honduran Congress and Courts did not go the impeachment route. When we do we can all speak more intelligently about this situation.

This is more than a "left vs right" thing; this is a stability vs anarchy thing.



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"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."