700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

***DarrylS*** · 06-23-2009, 04:42 PM

If they are accused, they have not been found guilty or innocent.. due process is a constitutional guarantee.... some folks do not like how the constitution is applied to everyone.. hysteria and hyperbole is preferred to logic and reason.

Are everyone of these 700 teachers guilty??? If so they do a terrible job of screening potential employees..

Contracts are mutually negotiated agreements, so it is erroneous to blame one side and not the other..

***tanked_as_usual*** · 06-23-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

If they are accused, they have not been found guilty or innocent.. due process is a constitutional guarantee.... some folks do not like how the constitution is applied to everyone.. hysteria and hyperbole is preferred to logic and reason.

Are everyone of these 700 teachers guilty??? If so they do a terrible job of screening potential employees..

Contracts are mutually negotiated agreements, so it is erroneous to blame one side and not the other..

in this instance, it is not.....it is whatever is stipulated in the contract.......there are no constitutional guarantees for employment......I can fire any subordinate and there's nothing the constitution can do about it

***DarrylS*** · 06-23-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual

in this instance, it is not.....it is whatever is stipulated in the contract.......there are no constitutional guarantees for employment......I can fire any subordinate and there's nothing the constitution can do about it

Talking out of your rightie ass again, you do not have a clue what you are talking about, due process and the belief that you are innocent until proven guilty are constitutioinally guaranteed, part of the boilerplate of any union contract are due process rights.. you cannot fire anyone you want in this setting, unless they have been convicted of wrongdoing. That is why unions are so great and have made this country so strong.

The world does not work the way you want it to or work the way you think it does..

***tanked_as_usual*** · 06-23-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

Talking out of your rightie ass again, you do not have a clue what you are talking about, due process and the belief that you are innocent until proven guilty are constitutioinally guaranteed, part of the boilerplate of any union contract are due process rights.. you cannot fire anyone you want in this setting, unless they have been convicted of wrongdoing. That is why unions are so great and have made this country so strong.

The world does not work the way you want it to or work the way you think it does..

heh..........unions are destroying this country...........the stipulations in any contract do not have anything to do with the constitution unless the stipulations are unconstitutional.........if the contract says you can be fired for any reason, then you can be fired for any reason.........

you and the unions are whats wrong with this country....and it is obvious I know how it works a hell of alot better than you do.......

decide to break the mod rules yourself, fukwad?

Fogbuster · 06-23-2009, 11:25 PM

It's very, very simple, boys and girls: if we allow the unions (and their behind-the-scenes mentors, Organized Crime) to have their way, China and Russia and Venezuela will end up with everything. Don't believe it?? Those people have *perfected* organized crime and made it into a way of life.

Either we have open transparency or we work for "bosses". Our choice.

//

***DarrylS*** · 06-24-2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual

heh..........unions are destroying this country...........the stipulations in any contract do not have anything to do with the constitution unless the stipulations are unconstitutional.........if the contract says you can be fired for any reason, then you can be fired for any reason.........

you and the unions are whats wrong with this country....and it is obvious I know how it works a hell of alot better than you do.......

decide to break the mod rules yourself, fukwad?

Nice talk, try to deal with you intelligently.. but my preconception is once again pearls to swine...

How can you fire someone based on an accusation?? You cannot go to jail based on an accusation, you cannot loose your license if you are thought to be driving drunk...

You obviously know nothing about the Constitution and its application regarding union contracts.. every contract has "boilerplate" that affords the rank file and protections in accordance with the constitution.. thus if you are alleged to have committed an offense you are entitled to due process and are innocent until proven guilty.

There are ways around all of this, however most folks prefer rhetoric rather than fact.. "unions are ruining this country" is just another right wing talking point.. there is nothing to prove this, just another fantasy.

If and when you know what you are talking about please respond.. if not move on.

***tanked_as_usual*** · 06-24-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

Nice talk, try to deal with you intelligently.. but my preconception is once again pearls to swine...

you give yourself way too much credit

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

How can you fire someone based on an accusation?? You cannot go to jail based on an accusation, you cannot loose your license if you are thought to be driving drunk...

privately employed people can be terminated for any reason.......it is written in most offers for employment......

as for driving, it is not a right, it is a privilege ........ you can lose your license for refusing a breathalyzer, so you do lose your license when you are thought to be drunk

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

You obviously know nothing about the Constitution and its application regarding union contracts.. every contract has "boilerplate" that affords the rank file and protections in accordance with the constitution.. thus if you are alleged to have committed an offense you are entitled to due process and are innocent until proven guilty.

I know plenty about the constitution.....you just down know anything about labor laws.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

There are ways around all of this, however most folks prefer rhetoric rather than fact.. "unions are ruining this country" is just another right wing talking point.. there is nothing to prove this, just another fantasy.

If and when you know what you are talking about please respond.. if not move on.

I do know.....you're the moron with no clue

***DarrylS*** · 06-24-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual

privately employed people can be terminated for any reason.......it is written in most offers for employment......

No they can't if you are in a union, that is one of the reasons that makes them great.. there is a process and a defined method

as for driving, it is not a right, it is a privilege ........ you can lose your license for refusing a breathalyzer, so you do lose your license when you are thought to be drunk

After sometype of adjudication or due process.. a cop cannot just pull your license arbitrarily.

I know plenty about the constitution.....you just down know anything about labor laws.........

Know more that you can imagine, from both sides of the aisle, but my experience is not all that important.. my knowledge base is.. you are talking about perception and my point of reference is living with labor laws, hiring, firing, training and dealing with very diverse people as an employee both in the public and private sector, administrator and union official.

I do know.....you're the moron with no clue

Thanks for the name calling, adds value to the conversation..

***tanked_as_usual*** · 06-24-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

No they can't if you are in a union, that is one of the reasons that makes them great.. there is a process and a defined method

great enough to destroy the auto industry as well as every other product unions are associated with.........your opinion is self-serving

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

After sometype of adjudication or due process.. a cop cannot just pull your license arbitrarily.

good backpedal......driving is not a right....case closed

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

Know more that you can imagine, from both sides of the aisle, but my experience is not all that important.. my knowledge base is.. you are talking about perception and my point of reference is living with labor laws, hiring, firing, training and dealing with very diverse people as an employee both in the public and private sector, administrator and union official.

I own my own company.......I know exactly what cause I need to remove someone from my payroll........exactly.........you just simply choose not to use that huge knowledge of yours

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

Thanks for the name calling, adds value to the conversation..

you're welcome.....I know it does

***DarrylS*** · 06-24-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual

great enough to destroy the auto industry as well as every other product unions are associated with.........your opinion is self-serving

The auto industry tanked not only because of unions, people in the towers made some really crappy decisions on what cars to build and did not properly assess the climate or deal with the competition.

good backpedal......driving is not a right....case closed

An officer can suspect you of drunk driving, but cannot make a decision to have you loose your license, that happens in due process...

I own my own company.......I know exactly what cause I need to remove someone from my payroll........exactly.........you just simply choose not to use that huge knowledge of yours

I am not disagreeing with you, the private sector is different from the organized sector, all I am doing is pointing out in Unions the rank and file have due process rights.. all of their "boilerplate language" is based on constitutionally defined rights.

you're welcome.....I know it does

You may have hired and fired people, personally been involved with big time labor relations on many levels... have been on both sides of hiring, training, discipline, negotiations, terminations and the whole gamut of what running large public organizations entails..

You cannot mix what you experience with the reality of unions... the world does not work that way, btw what is the name of your company, maybe I can arrange for some union operatives to pay you a visit to assist the rank and file in making good decisions and to insure you are treating them well.