Obama Universal Health Care - New England Patriots Forums

***NEPatriot*** · 05-29-2009, 05:14 PM

Bill Moyers Journal . Transcripts | PBS

When you have free time, go to this web site and read the ENTIRE interview. Here is the excerpt.

Quote:

BILL MOYERS: Sid, you've been watching this and involved in this since 1971. What happens if they pass comprehensive health reform that is really just more of the same in disguise? What happens to health care after that?

Quote:

DR. SIDNEY WOLFE: Well, the country, whether it's the employers who have to pay for it, or the patients who are paying for it, is going to go bankrupt much more quickly.

It is not economically feasible to pass anything other than a single-payer, government collecting the money and paying the bills, and provide health care. It's never been done in any country. Taiwan, of all places, said, we don't like the fact that 40 percent of our people are uninsured. They passed, essentially, single-payer plan and within a few years 90-95 percent of the people were covered.

So, we have lots of models to draw on. Learn something from Canada, learn something from Taiwan, from a number of other places. It's inexcusable that we do anything but that. Anything that passes is not going to work. I guarantee that, 100 percent. And David will agree with me.
DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Well, and what happens is that the health care system gets worse and worse, fewer and fewer people can actually afford the care they need. And we will be having this debate again, unfortunately, relatively soon. And I guess I fall back to Winston Churchill's quote that you can always rely on Americans to do the right thing after they've exhausted every other possibility. So, that's what we're working on.

***maverick4*** · 05-29-2009, 05:39 PM

Something you need to get over, which is the real root of your passions: A half Black guy is now the President of your country. Deal with it.

***klinefan*** · 05-29-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick4

Something you need to get over, which is the real root of your passions: A half Black guy is now the President of your country. Deal with it.

People who are reluctant to have universal health care are racist. Brilliant arguement. How can one refute it? He now has to PROVE he's not a racist! People who have been opposed to universal health care for years were really doing so because they knew someday a "half black guy" would be president and he'd be for it.

I hate people like you. Sanctimonious...I bet you had a very self satisfied smirk on your face as you typed that.

Holy Diver · 05-29-2009, 06:12 PM

I support Obama, but not the fact that he has said he takes the Single Payer option off the table.

It seems to be the best practice, to eliminate the middle man, and have money flowing from a sigle location, thus eliminating almost 50% of amin costs, which take up about 20%-30% of the system.

all those in favor of the current system support waste.

There will be a few advocates of the single payer system on the hill next week to brief the congress on its merits. But until the people undestand that this isn't socialized medicine, its merly a regulated market...the fatster we will quit the fear, and get everyone coverage.

a healthy and educated population is our greatest asset as a nation.

for more info about what works and doesn't work around the world...

FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

This is a great piece, that I've posted in the past. The program dissects healthcare from 6 nations and lists the pros and cons pof each system.

I've often suggested taking th ebest ideas and applying them to our system.

the good news in all this, is we finally have a president who wants to bring this up again, and a congress thats willing to do something....

***klinefan*** · 05-29-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Diver

I support Obama, but not the fact that he has said he takes the Single Payer option off the table.

It seems to be the best practice, to eliminate the middle man, and have money flowing from a sigle location, thus eliminating almost 50% of amin costs, which take up about 20%-30% of the system.

all those in favor of the current system support waste.

There will be a few advocates of the single payer system on the hill next week to brief the congress on its merits. But until the people undestand that this isn't socialized medicine, its merly a regulated market...the fatster we will quit the fear, and get everyone coverage.

a healthy and educated population is our greatest asset as a nation.

for more info about what works and doesn't work around the world...

FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

This is a great piece, that I've posted in the past. The program dissects healthcare from 6 nations and lists the pros and cons pof each system.

I've often suggested taking th ebest ideas and applying them to our system.

the good news in all this, is we finally have a president who wants to bring this up again, and a congress thats willing to do something....

How is that not socialized medicine? Having the gov't as the single payer would socialize everyone into the same system.

Much of the "waste" and I don't think it's 20-30%...Wellpoint's claims are 83% of revenues...doesn't leave a whole lot for expenses, profit and taxes....but a lot of that admin cost is designed to help keep costs down by using best practices, paying for a case not an infinite number of doctor visits for the same procedure.

Obama wants to expand Medicare...the only problem with that is that Medicare is unsustainable...it's going broke.

In a free country, people shouldn't be forced to pay for health insurance if they don't want it. That's kind of where I start.

Roland · 05-29-2009, 06:20 PM

their going to plant chips in us they will do this when we are forced to get the flue shot. It will imbed in our colonic wall. I read that at the alan jones web.

Holy Diver · 05-29-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klinefan

How is that not socialized medicine? Having the gov't as the single payer would socialize everyone into the same system.

Much of the "waste" and I don't think it's 20-30%...Wellpoint's claims are 83% of revenues...doesn't leave a whole lot for expenses, profit and taxes....but a lot of that admin cost is designed to help keep costs down by using best practices, paying for a case not an infinite number of doctor visits for the same procedure.

Obama wants to expand Medicare...the only problem with that is that Medicare is unsustainable...it's going broke.

In a free country, people shouldn't be forced to pay for health insurance if they don't want it. That's kind of where I start.

Mostly because the free market still exists in all of those systems. Drug prices are regulated, thus they cost the same in each hospital. Hospitals comptete for patients by the quality of their care. Its actually a lot more patient friendly and puts an emphasis on preventative care. Preventative care is a cost saver, single payer is a cost saver. we need to be more efficiant.

The term "socialized medicine" is put out there to scare you. You are meant to think that the government will be advising on your surgery, and Nanci Pelosi will be regulating your IV.....

come on.

as far as Perscription drugs, and medicare...you are RIGHT. by the year 2050, those kinds of entitlements will make up 100% of the federal budget.

100%

we need to consolidate costs for those programs NOW, or every cent you and I pay in future taxes will be spent on that.

Now.....if you don't want healthcare....you are fuking the system, and hedging the bet on your own health on the fact that you will never get sick. This also will stress the new system if the steps needed to correct a procedure could've been avoided by something like ayearly checkup.

There is a way to do this, but guess what....some people who make A LOT of money by denial of coverage now, will be making less....

Thats who is feeding you the BS scare tactic of "Socialized Medicine"

Holy Diver · 05-29-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

their going to plant chips in us they will do this when we are forced to get the flue shot. It will imbed in our colonic wall. I read that at the alan jones web.

you are already chiped, idiot.

ljuneau · 05-29-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Diver

The term "socialized medicine" is put out there to scare you. You are meant to think that the government will be advising on your surgery, and Nanci Pelosi will be regulating your IV.....

The term "socialized medicine" is put out there because that's what it's called!!! Or would you prefer it be renamed to something more comforting, like "happy medicine"?

One way or another the government-controlled system WILL have to regulate demand. No, it won't be Nancy Pelosi, but it will be someone in a cubicle that doesn't know you, doesn't care about you, and likely hates their job. This socialized system has been tried before and is a proven nightmare.

But hey, if you prefer your "happy medicine" plan, just hope, when you or someone in your family needs that life-saving treatment, the government-employee on the other end of the phone is in a good mood that day.

Holy Diver · 05-29-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljuneau

The term "socialized medicine" is put out there because that's what it's called!!! Or would you prefer it be renamed to something more comforting, like "happy medicine"?

But hey, if you prefer your "happy medicine" plan, just hope, when you or someone in your family needs that life-saving treatment, the government-employee on the other end of the phone is in a good mood that day.

UNIVERSAL coverage.

we already have 'socialized medicine' check your medicare, son.

we have socialized fire, and police too....

in your world, you'd rather have an adjuster from an insurance company decide....you are totally cool with outsourcing denial of coverage?

for a quick history on all this....you might wanna check out the NIXON TAPES...

since you probably will not....

here ya go: its fun to pick a family member to play a role....and kinda run through the script together!

John D. Ehrlichman: "On the … on the health business …"

President Nixon: "Yeah."

Ehrlichman: "… we have now narrowed down the vice president's problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser's Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don't think they'll work, but if the President thinks it's a good idea, I'll support him a hundred percent.’"

President Nixon: "Well, what's … what's the judgment?"

Ehrlichman: "Well, everybody else's judgment very strongly is that we go with it."
President Nixon: "All right."

Ehrlichman: "And, uh, uh, he's the one holdout that we have in the whole office."

President Nixon: "Say that I … I … I'd tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it's, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I'm not to keen on any of these damn medical programs."

Ehrlichman: "This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …"

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: "This … this is a …"

President Nixon: "I don't [unclear] …"

Ehrlichman: "… private enterprise one."

President Nixon: "Well, that appeals to me."

Ehrlichman: "Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …"

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: "… the less care they give them, the more money they make."

President Nixon: "Fine." [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] "… and the incentives run the right way."

President Nixon: "Not bad."

THAT is what you are defending.