Road to Hell PAved with Good Intentions - New England Patriots Forums

***patsfan13*** · 05-19-2009, 09:54 AM

Currently a 'cap and trade' bill which was just published last fri is being voted on before the mem day break. The bill is > 1000 pages none of the people voting will even have read this monstrosity much less understand the details.

Here are 2 articles about the results of cap and trade & iol leaking into the enviroment. BOth illustrate the law of unintended consequences:

American Thinker Blog: 'Paradox' of carbon cap and trade dawns on German warmists

Quote:

Once again, the adverse consequences of poorly-conceived environmental policies dawns on mush-headed greenies. Germany's Spiegel posts an article puzzling over the consequences of that nation's sweeping carbon emissions legislation, conceding that it has not reduced carbon emissions one gram. To Spiegel and the warmists, this is somehow a "paradox"
...

In the worst case scenario, sustainable energy plants might even have a detrimental effect on the climate. As more wind turbines go online, coal plants will be able to reduce their output. This in itself is desirable -- but the problem is that the total number of available CO2 emission certificates remains the same. In other words, there will suddenly be more certificates per kilowatt of coal energy. That means the price per ton of CO2 emitted will fall. ...

Cap and trade does nothing about Co2 and raises energy prices the only beneficaries are bureaucrats...

Natural Petroleum Seeps Release Equivalent Of Up To 80 Exxon Valdez Oil Spills

Quote:

According to new research by scientists from UC Santa Barbara and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), that's how much oil has made its way into sediments offshore from petroleum seeps near Coal Oil Point in the Santa Barbara Channel. Their research, reported in an article being published in the May 15 issue of Environmental Science & Technology, documents how the oil is released by the seeps, carried to the surface along a meandering plume, and then deposited on the ocean floor in sediments that stretch for miles northwest of Coal Oil Point.

...
"It's dramatic how much the oil loses in this life cycle," Reddy said. "It's almost like someone who has lost 400 pounds."

It's the amount of residual oil that made it to the ocean floor that surprised all of the researchers. "Based on what we found in the sample cores at our sites, we calculated the amount of hydrocarbon in the whole area," Valentine said. "We have to make assumptions about how deep the sediment is, so we assume a range of between 50 centimeters and 5 meters. We come out with 8 to 80 Exxon Valdezes worth of oil, just in this area."

Naturally occuring oil seepage is > Exxon Valdexz an dbiodegrades naturally. Ironically the areas steamed after the Exxon Valdez spill recovered more slowly than the areas where naturally process were allowed to biodegrade the oil (the steaming killed helpful bacteria.

Why aren''t we drilling oil rather than allowing it to seep into the Ocean?

***tanked_as_usual*** · 05-19-2009, 10:03 AM

it ain't going to be easy to fix the way the world pollutes itself, but it is going to have to be fixed to assure continued life as we know it

whether or not you believe the specifics of global warming, the fact is that humanity is negatively affecting the earths environment and humanity must reduce its impact on the rest of the planets eco systems......

***BelichickFan*** · 05-19-2009, 10:05 AM

Cap & Trade will move more jobs out of the U.S. Most of the world would be subject to the rules and companies could just move out of the U.S. to a place with less regulation. Will most companies move for this reason ? No. Will some ? Yes. Even aside from the money it will cost consumers it will also cost jobs from companies moving elsewhere.

mcgraw_wv · 05-19-2009, 10:09 AM

I was only under the impression that Cap and Trade does not reduce Co2, but puts cash in the hands of green technologies in order to fund technology to produce more efficient green energy sources.

Dirty energy has to buy credits from green energy producers therefore funding green energy.

Which will lead towards technological discoveries that will reduce the Co2 emissions.

I wasn't aware that cap and trade was ever sold as a direct reduction in co2???

----

I am very interested in new energy, and I think we are ALL looking at this the wrong way.

The goal should not be to find ways to create giant power plants to produce all our green energy, but to make each home and business self reliant.

If we turn every house into an energy producer, the power grid system would be forever fault tolerant as you would have millions of power station nodes rather than simply a few.

It is also much easier to solve the problem of making 1 home energy self sufficient. And the cost of going over the energy you produce should be EXPENSIVE.

I imagine that each house should produce X amount of energy a month, and if you go over it by y, you should pay lots for it. The Energy companies make the SAME money, simply the product is more expensive. Which will a) encourage people to use less, and conserve more, and promote a "I can do it myself" attitude in America. I am eagerly awaiting the day I can purchase a solar system that can produce the needed electricity for my home at a good cost.

Right now that system would cost me 60k, and the value simply isn't there right now. Not only do I want to produce all that I need, but I want turn my house into an producer of energy and sell back energy to the power company.

***patsfan13*** · 05-19-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual

it ain't going to be easy to fix the way the world pollutes itself, but it is going to have to be fixed to assure continued life as we know it

whether or not you believe the specifics of global warming, the fact is that humanity is negatively affecting the earths environment and humanity must reduce its impact on the rest of the planets eco systems......

CO2 is not a pollutant. It helps plants grow is is a minor greenhouse gas.
Man's CO2 emissions are not harming the planet. Not particulate emissions are another matter altogether.

This global climate change scare is distracting people from real problems which could be addressed rather cheaply.

As I said "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

***BelichickFan*** · 05-19-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgraw_wv

I was only under the impression that Cap and Trade does not reduce Co2, but puts cash in the hands of green technologies in order to fund technology to produce more efficient green energy sources.

Last I heard, obama was planning on using the money from the Cap&Trade Tax to pay for his health care fiasco, er, plan.

STFarmy · 05-19-2009, 10:40 AM

Cap and trade will be awesome for the economy.

***patsfan13*** · 05-19-2009, 10:46 AM

I can't wait to pay 25%+ mopre for electricity so the government can waste the $$$