Sign a Petition to ask for the release from imprisonment of an innocent woman - New England Patriots Forums

Fogbuster · 03-05-2009, 04:05 AM

Dear All,

We have our vigorous give and take on this list, making our debate into a virtual contact sport, but there is one thing that should touch everybody's heart: the imprisonment of a young woman whose "crime" was to teach what has been written in the Old Testament Bible for some 4000 years.

Please read the short letter to the president of Kazakhstan, asking for the release of this young Russian woman who was recently given a two-year sentence. Find it here:

Free Lisa! Letter to the President of Republic Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbaev

Thanking you in advance,

Fogbuster

//

***Patters*** · 03-05-2009, 05:36 AM

A member of a church that has been successfully sued for scamming Japanese widows and that by its leaders own statements is perversely homophobic and sexist, is accused of the "promotion of the inferiority of citizens on the basis of their relationship to the tribal and social class." In return this same church says she is innocent, providing this evidence: "The accusations are completely false and unfounded." Based on that we're so supposed to sign a petition? While I certainly believe in freedom of speech, I would no more go out and defend the rights of a bigoted and corrupt church then I would the rights of those who champion Nazi-ism. I respect their rights, but there are more noble causes for me to embrace. Perhaps, Fog, you should contact one of the liberal groups that have been known to represent oppressed minorities, even bigots, such as the ACLU or Amnesty International.

Fogbuster · 03-05-2009, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

A member of a church that has been successfully sued for scamming Japanese widows and that by its leaders own statements is perversely homophobic and sexist, is accused of the "promotion of the inferiority of citizens on the basis of their relationship to the tribal and social class." In return this same church says she is innocent, providing this evidence: "The accusations are completely false and unfounded." Based on that we're so supposed to sign a petition? While I certainly believe in freedom of speech, I would no more go out and defend the rights of a bigoted and corrupt church then I would the rights of those who champion Nazi-ism. I respect their rights, but there are more noble causes for me to embrace. Perhaps, Fog, you should contact one of the liberal groups that have been known to represent oppressed minorities, even bigots, such as the ACLU or Amnesty International.

Don't worry, Patters, there are attorneys from the U.S., Russia, and Kazakhstan who are already at work on this. There will be a new hearing of her case next Tuesday, March 10.

I would caution your use of the term, "Nazi-ism" when speaking of religions, as it does seem to conflict with both the spirit and letter of the guidelines of this list, not to mention common decency toward a fellow poster on the list.

The facts of this case are that this young lady currently being held in prison was found "guilty" of teaching the core foundation of both the Jewish and Christian scriptures, namely, the Genesis account of the Fall of Adam and Eve. All Jewish and Christian teaching starts with this premise of the Fall of the first human ancestors. All Judeo-Christian culture has been built upon this foundational belief, a culture which provides us with the freedoms we enjoy: democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of faith, etc.

This young woman has been imprisoned and given a 2-year sentence for teaching what all of Judeo-Christianity teaches, and thus is suffering for all who live under the blessings of that culture. Anybody with a shred of concern about a fellow human being must feel sympathy for this abuse of human rights and religious freedom.

//

***Patters*** · 03-05-2009, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Don't worry, Patters, there are attorneys from the U.S., Russia, and Kazakhstan who are already at work on this. There will be a new hearing of her case next Tuesday, March 10.

I would caution your use of the term, "Nazi-ism" when speaking of religions, as it does seem to conflict with both the spirit and letter of the guidelines of this list, not to mention common decency toward a fellow poster on the list.

The facts of this case are that this young lady currently being held in prison was found "guilty" of teaching the core foundation of both the Jewish and Christian scriptures, namely, the Genesis account of the Fall of Adam and Eve. All Jewish and Christian teaching starts with this premise of the Fall of the first human ancestors. All Judeo-Christian culture has been built upon this foundational belief, a culture which provides us with the freedoms we enjoy: democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of faith, etc.

This young woman has been imprisoned and given a 2-year sentence for teaching what all of Judeo-Christianity teaches, and thus is suffering for all who live under the blessings of that culture. Anybody with a shred of concern about a fellow human being must feel sympathy for this abuse of human rights and religious freedom.

I'm not comparing your church in any way to Nazi-ism, merely pointing out that I have zero interest in this particular cause. While I believe in the rights of religious bigots, racists, and even Nazi's to speak, I would not invest my time, energy, or money to defend that right. I apologize if you thought I was comparing your church to Nazi-ism; that was not my intent.

Fogbuster · 03-05-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

I'm not comparing your church in any way to Nazi-ism, merely pointing out that I have zero interest in this particular cause. While I believe in the rights of religious bigots, racists, and even Nazi's to speak, I would not invest my time, energy, or money to defend that right. I apologize if you thought I was comparing your church to Nazi-ism; that was not my intent.

This young woman has not been charged with any other than what is on the web site: "promotion of the inferiority of citizens on the basis of their relationship to the tribal and social class". The basis for this charge is the teaching this lady is giving: that is in direct relationship with the teaching of the Bible, book of Genesis, which says that Adam and Eve fell under the domination of "the serpent" (the devil, Satan), which is merely the core foundational teaching of Judaism and Christianity.

Freedom of faith, speech, and thought: either it exists or it does not.

//

***reflexblue*** · 03-05-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

A member of a church that has been successfully sued for scamming Japanese widows and that by its leaders own statements is perversely homophobic and sexist, is accused of the "promotion of the inferiority of citizens on the basis of their relationship to the tribal and social class." In return this same church says she is innocent, providing this evidence: "The accusations are completely false and unfounded." Based on that we're so supposed to sign a petition? While I certainly believe in freedom of speech, I would no more go out and defend the rights of a bigoted and corrupt church then I would the rights of those who champion Nazi-ism. I respect their rights, but there are more noble causes for me to embrace. Perhaps, Fog, you should contact one of the liberal groups that have been known to represent oppressed minorities, even bigots, such as the ACLU or Amnesty International.

***reflexblue*** · 03-05-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Dear All,

We have our vigorous give and take on this list, making our debate into a virtual contact sport, but there is one thing that should touch everybody's heart: the imprisonment of a young woman whose "crime" was to teach what has been written in the Old Testament Bible for some 4000 years.

Please read the short letter to the president of Kazakhstan, asking for the release of this young Russian woman who was recently given a two-year sentence. Find it here:

Free Lisa! Letter to the President of Republic Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbaev

Thanking you in advance,

Fogbuster

//

So fraud you come here after insulting members, calling for their execution etc.etc.etc.on a I wrote etc. because what you do on a daily bases would excead the forums limit on leangth. You come here asking us to sign a petition for a group of of scam artists that have been caught, who work for maybe the biggest con artist of our time.... When BO's grandmother died you posted "So what, i didn't know her" on the condolence page. Well as far as these little moonie scam artist whores go. SO WHAT, I DON'T KNOW THEM.

***DarrylS*** · 03-05-2009, 07:41 AM

This reminds me of Free Mamula or Free Leonard Peletier, sounds real good until you do some investigation of the actions of the detainee.. there is usually more to the picture than meets the eye.. aside from the Moonie Front Group FFWPA there does not seem to be a lot of interest in this issue, only one Washington Times article.. maybe the rest of the Moonies are as rude and disrepectful as our resident Moonie is... thus not a lot of support.

Our sister Elizaveta Drenicheva has been sentenced to two years in prison for practicing her faith - alt.religion.unification | Google Groups

Quote:

The Kazakhstan authorities decision is 100% TRUE and leaders like
Rev.Michael Jenkins are 100% responsible for the inprisonement of
Elizaveta Drenicheva an INNOCENT,MISLED,DECIEVED very good intentioned
person,WHY DID MOONIE LEADERS NOT FORWARN Elizaveta Drenicheva of the
evil side of the moonies that DESTROYS PEOPLES LIVES with
lies,deception.

Our sister Elizaveta Drenicheva has been sentenced to two years in
prison for practicing her faith.

According to the prosecutor, E. Drenicheva was sentenced for ‘having
committed heavy crimes against the peace and security of humanity.’

FFWPU Urges Release of Elizaveta Drenicheva, Prisoner of Conscience | Reuters

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Rev. Michael Jenkins, Family
Federation-USA President, today called on human rights organizations, news
media, religious leaders, and government agencies to publicize and protest the
imprisonment of Unificationist Elizaveta Drenicheva in Kazakhstan as a
prisoner of conscience.

Mrs. Drenicheva, 30, was convicted and sentenced on January 9 in Almaty to a
minimum two years behind bars in a district prison. According to the
prosecutor, Drenicheva, a Russian citizen doing missionary work in Kazakhstan,
was guilty of "heavy crimes against the peace and security of humanity." Her
crime consisted of teaching the church's doctrine of original sin, which was
interpreted by the court as denigrating groups outside the church on the basis
of their "ethnicity" or "lineage." "This is a fundamental violation of Mrs.
Drenicheva's rights," said Jenkins. "The idea that our teaching denigrates
people on the basis of ethnicity is outrageous. Nothing could be further from
the spirit or letter of the teachings of our church and its founder, the
Reverend Sun Myung Moon."

Who is Michael Jenkins???, he is the Prez of the Uni's in America, find it interesting that he comes across a the Prez of FFPA and not the Uni Church..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael...ication_Church)

Quote:

Michael Jenkins is the president of the Unification Church of the United States,[1][2] or more formally, the "North American President of the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification",[3] based in Washington, D.C.[2] He was appointed to the position by church founder Sun Myung Moon on April 16, 2000 after serving for the previous 2 years as the HSA Vice-President for evangelical outreach.[4] Previously, Jenkins had pastored the Chicago Family Church of Peace in the Chicago, Illinois area for seventeen years.[2]

wistahpatsfan · 03-05-2009, 07:44 AM

You have no idea what you're talking about. The Adam and Eve myth is the "core foundation" of Christianity? Since when? The core of Christianity is the Golden Rule, not a silly children's story designed for illiterate and superstitious desert dwellers.

Kazakhstan might have it right. Maybe we need a law that prevents the teaching of bull***** like the "Adam and Eve Story" as if it were true and sent down from the invisible man.

...Just joking, as of course, freedom of speech is the most important of the Bill of Rights. But I don't give a rat's azz about this broad. Good luck with your efforts. My guess is that no matter how many people you get to sign, The Kazakh authorities - and I do mean authorities (I thought you automatically deferred to authority as a rule of your cult?)- won't give a rats azz either. Try helping someone who has a chance in hell.

PatsWSB47 · 03-05-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

A member of a church that has been successfully sued for scamming Japanese widows and that by its leaders own statements is perversely homophobic and sexist, is accused of the "promotion of the inferiority of citizens on the basis of their relationship to the tribal and social class." In return this same church says she is innocent, providing this evidence: "The accusations are completely false and unfounded." Based on that we're so supposed to sign a petition? While I certainly believe in freedom of speech, I would no more go out and defend the rights of a bigoted and corrupt church then I would the rights of those who champion Nazi-ism. I respect their rights, but there are more noble causes for me to embrace. Perhaps, Fog, you should contact one of the liberal groups that have been known to represent oppressed minorities, even bigots, such as the ACLU or Amnesty International.

Wow, how society has failed this woman. If more money had just been spent on eliminating the environment that made her turn to out this way. It's cruel of you Patters to refuse to sign the petition to help this woman out of jail. Boy it's just like you Regan types to want punishment and prosecution. Perhaps a new tax could fund a program that would rehabilitate this lady.