PatriotsReign

Under the current system of capitalism, laziness is results in it's own punishment...and rightfully so. After all, if a citizen isn't really motivated to achieve and strive to better themselves, they don't deserve a life on par with someone who is.

Of course we have to discount the lazy people born into wealth...that's for another discussion. I bring this up for a discussion with those who would like to see another system other than capitalism. How does socialism or communism punish laziness? Do they enjoy the same circumstances of the more motived achievers. What a horrible view on life that would be.

I think motivation and achievement should always be rewarded and laziness, punished.

Harry Boy

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Synovia

I think your assumption that it happens in capitalism is wrong. I also think that your assumptions that it would be worse in socialism or communism are also wrong.

Real World

You stop laziness by not rewarding it. We run a welfare state in this country, and thus laziness is constantly rewarded.

Socialism and communism ABSOLUTELY make people more lazy. You do less in those societies as is. There is little incentive to work harder, since the reward is either non-existent (communism), or severely impeded (high taxation of socialist systems).

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Stokes

I'd say that rather than make it about laziness we should be talking about personal responsibility. Yes, laziness is a problem, but more of a problem is the total lack of consequences for one's actions in the USA right now. Yes, there are lazy people that defraud the welfare system, lazy parents that don't raise their kids, but there are also people that work very hard but do so to screw others over! The CEO that works 15 hours a day figuring out how to increase his bonus while cutting jobs is no more deserving of praise than the welfare case just because he's working hard. What we need is to shape the law to emphasize responsibility. Parents need to be responsible for raising their children properly. CEOs need to be responsible for the poor performance of their companies (not bailed out thus encouraging them to make the same risky moves they made the first time). Union workers need to be held accountable for making sure they get the more out of doing less. Executives need to be held accountable for shameless salary bumps while laying off workers. Illegals need to be held accountable for breaking the law. On and on. My basic feeling is the less we ask the government to do for us the better off we are. That said I'm not totally against spending on social programs or anything. I like programs that reward achievement (like for example the policy Romney implemented in MA where the top 5 of every HS class are eligible for a free ride at a state university), as well as those that place the onus on the individual rather than the government. There I think of things like making parents liable for crimes committed by their kids (say the kids are gang-bangers, maybe those laws already exist?), or on the hook for the cost of their kid's education if they're failing out of school. How about linking CEO bonuses to personal liability in case of losses by the company? I'd like that because I don't like saying a company can't pay a CEO whatever they want, but maybe it helps to combat corporate excess and stop CEOs from operating in a vacuum. On personal issues (drug use, trans fat laws, gun control, hate speech, etc) I want the government out of it, let people do what they want but punish those that do wrong (drunk driving, shooting crimes, etc).

Right now we are rewarding people for being stupid (defaulting on mortgages, having welfare babies, becoming drug addicts, etc), lazy (US auto unions, welfare cheats), greedy (CEOs/execs), and even criminal (illegals, etc). We should re-focus on how to reward people doing the right thing and stop bailing out everyone that's bringing us down!

Lifer

let 'em starve, eh?

how about their children?

363839

Don't worry about them.
Karma will settle things eventually.

PatriotsReign

Living on welfare is punishment in my opinion RW. How is that a reward?

PatriotsReign

If you read my post, I said I support our current system. So if somone want to publically embaress themselves by living on welfard, then so be it...that in itself is punishment because of the lack of respect people on welfare get.

This is about "how would another system punish laziness and free-loading?"

Real World

If I could type as articulately, and eloquently as you Stokes, I'd have posted the same.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897