IcyPatriot

Not a thread to bash Israel or the Jewish. Not defending the rocket attacks into Israel by Hamas. I just don't understand how the world can sit by with the human rights abuses that are the life of the Palestinians. These people live in poverty, sickness, they are malnourished and depressed. Nobody is right or wrong religiously ... but Israel for the most part deals with a very, very harsh hand.

I'm no expert on the area and I'm probably making a mistake posting this thread. Just wondering what others think of the seriously messed up situation that is known as Gaza ... sounds like a version of hell to me.
Hamas is not really a government for the people. Iran and others use Gaza to provoke Israel. Israel won't deal fairly for a multitude of reasons. So these people who live there are pawns ... that's way messed up ... there can be no solution until the people become free of being political pawns

Like I said ... I'm no expert ... Israel wants Hamas gone and Iran can keep hamas there forever ... how can anyone say a solution is possible?

If I lived in Gaza would I lob a few rockets?
I think I would ... what is there to live for when living in Gaza?

PatsFanInVa

It's hard to blame an individual living in Gaza from lobbing a rocket. I also know were I an Israeli and called on to retaliate, it would be easy to do so. Anybody who does not understanding the misery of the occupation just has not looked at the situation very closely.

I don't see much to disagree with here on a gut level, Icy. It's not about the religions or who's right and who's wrong. It's about ending the occupation for the sake of both parties. This does not mean "ta daaaa it's solved," it means both sides have to be capable of negotiating for peace. However for the past few years neither side has seemed interested in peace.

And as you say the everyday Gazan is a pawn. And when you're told you can be a pawn or a holy warrior, which sounds better?

Continual war is neither a natural nor a sustainable state. I hope for a 2-state solution by 2016... but I have been hoping this for a long time.

PFnV

reflexblue

If i lived in Gaza i think i'd duck.

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MrBigglesWorth

very true. what sounds better? pawn or patriotic hero granted we have it a ton better here

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DarrylS

What always gets me in these types of story is that Israel good and Palestinians bad... unfortunately there is a lot of grey here, Israel has done its share food and fuel deprivation, tearing down of homes etc.

I agree with PVA things need to change and a different model needs to be looked at..

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FreeTedWilliams

The people of GAza, elected a terrorist organization as there government, and now we are suppose to feel bad for them, because Israel is responding to the terrorists attacks?

That would be like the people of Massachusetts crying when Obama raises your taxes.

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Harry Boy

Since 9/11 the "Muslim" has become the American Far Left Liberal's "dearest friend" Israel had better take note of this as America now has a very liberal administration about to come into power and I doubt very much if the Pelosi Gang or the New White House will be to concerned over what happens to Israel.

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Turk

Peace would have been achieved a long time ago had it not been for those few, from both sides and more, that benefit so greatly from this bloody conflict.

That's why they keep pouring gasoline into the fire.

If peace were to come, they would lose tons of $$$ and power.

All over the world; same scenario, same actors, same lines, just different costumes.

As to your question, Icy; I think you and PFV are right on.
The every day victim in Gaza is getting it from all sides, including the UN for its pathetic lack of action, and finally after losing his child, grabbing the nearest gun.

Isn't it curious though, that in that environment of total devastation and famine when one cannot find the most basic of human needs, he can very easily find the latest style weapon or bomb?

IcyPatriot

I thought about that FTW ... perhaps they felt they had no other option considering the circumstances they live in.

PatsFanInVa

FTW: I agree with you Hamas is a terrorist organization. As such, and for other obvious reasons, I would never vote for them.

They did not, however, run on terrorism. Everybody knew that came with the territory, but that was not the platform. Neither was Islamist theocracy. Their platform, believe it or not, was social services and an end to corruption.

People are not so different as we like to believe when we are drawing the battle lines.

You and I may agree, and I may disagree with Turk, were we to default to the usual argument about which side to be on. But by now I think it's just become obvious that the two sides are the war side and the peace side.

What hurts to see are the everyday people being squeezed in the occupation, and the everyday people caught in the crossfire on either side.

On one side you have the "right" principal of aiming for the bad guys, and hitting everyday people only by mistake... combined with the "wrong" principal of occupation. On the other side you have the "wrong" tactic of aiming for the everyday people... combined with the internationally recognized "right" principal of national self-determination.

This isn't about Muslims being the darlings of the American left. This is about a situation that many of us have watched, understood, and wanted to see changed for decades-- for the sake of all parties. I have no patience for grief tourists who want to jump on the latest bandwagon with a wafer-thin understanding of the politics in one place or another. I also have no patience for right wing dilletantes who want everything to be a hate fest.

Weird but true story:

I went to the newspaper box today to pick up the Wash. Post. It may be significant that the price of the paper went from 50 cents to 75. I put in 2 quarters, pulled on the front of the box, and nothing happened. I muttered maybe too loudly a mild epithet, then realized I needed the 3rd quarter. I then put in the third quarter, opened the box, and got the paper.

I turned to walk to the local lunch joint, and got maybe 2 steps when, for the first time in my life, for no apparent reason, a guy missing a couple of teeth with some pretty worn clothing and no air of having anywhere to go spoke Hebrew to me. Swear to God. He said just one word: Shalom.

Well one of 2 things had happened. Either he'd ethnically identified me on sight and wanted to hear "Shalom" back, or he'd ethnically identified me on sight, and was ironically referencing the cover of the paper I'd just bought. The front page picture was a photo of gaza on fire.

I said "Shalom" back, and only realized a moment later that I had a great opportunity to make a poignant comment despite my paucity of Hebrew. I knew enough that I could have said "Lo Shalom," and shown him the cover of the Post.

("Lo Shalom" = "No Peace.")