Originally Posted by speed
Seriously and you can flame if you want I won't respond to that simple minded drivel, but I'll start with this. I can't believe this is still going on. Usually when you do your time or pay a penalty, its over. Anyway, I am curious to what the level headed Pats fan thinks about the litany of excuses and the logic that follows:
1.) It doesn't provide a competitive advantage.
-If its not an advantage, then why do it (argument on the main board from Chuck Farley, I think)?
2.) It's not illegal to tape, it was the location of the taping.
-is this verified by the league or just what Patsfans have adopted as the truth from speculation from the media?
3.) It was only the minor infraction.
-Then why the worse penalty in the history of the league and if it was only minor infraction, but the worse penalty ever, then why in the world wouldn't Kraft appeal the decision. He should've demanded a review of the "minor infraction"
4.) Everyone does it.
-Is this speculation or have other teams been caught doing it. Link?
5.) Lastly a question, why did he destroy the tapes? He couldn't protect them from getting out? He can't be serious, the NFL offices are so disorganized and unprofessional that you can't guard confidential information, its not believeable. He can't put them in a safe somewhere that only a few people have access. This hurts the situation more than anything. Why do you think he really destroyed the tapes.
Although this topic's been beaten like a dead horse let's recap - credit the poster with some succinct questions regarding this "scandal". Given the simple questions and simple answers it's pretty easy to give this "scandal" the proper perspective nearly 1 year later.
1.) What is/was the competitive advantage?
Here we are going on one year and incredible overkill on media coverage and no one can say for sure. No one knows exactly WHY Belichick was interested in taping coaches signals. That alone should cause folks to wonder if indeed this is the major scandal the media, and certain organizations and fans, would like it to be.
All the analysis of such taping for game day purposes comes back with so-called experts saying that there's no way to sync the game tape and sideline tape and analyze in real time to provide immediate competitive advantage.
More likely, IMO, this is something that Belichick does to get to know the game calling tendencies of coaches through thorough analysis post game. It's well known that teams know their signals are being stolen by every team (*gasp* CHEATERS!) which is why they change them and would never have the same signals for two different opponents.
I'd assume this is something Belichick had done for a long time, as everyone acknowledges that he's more than a student of the game - when it comes to analysis of tape and such he's nearly compulsive about reviewing every aspect of the game.
I think one can also assume he was doing it before it was illegal - which that fact alone should give the righteous some pause - until recently this sort of action was NOT illegal.
2.) It's not illegal to tape, it was the location of the taping.
As is well known now, the Jets were thrown out of Foxboro for taping without permission of the Patriots. The NFL made clear regarding this instance that taping with the permission of another team is not prohibited. In fact we know that many teams have video monitoring devices in their own stadium for play analysis and who knows what else. The NFL makes no effort to police these tapes - should a telescopic lens and microphone be targeted at an opposing team bench, no one would ever know.
Heck - we even know that some teams bug thier OWN locker rooms. Do you think they'd draw the line at bugging an opponent's locker room? Are you zen going with the honor system that exists in that regard as it stands?
Regarding that instance with the Jets - even though the Jets were taping illegally, Goodell wasn't interested in seeing WHAT was being taped from the stands. Interesting.
3. It was only the minor infraction. Then why the worst penalty in the history of the league?
First of all, the Broncos have the distinction of having the highest monetary penalty - not the Patriots. They were fined nearly $2 million for salary cap violations - more than twice the amount the Patriots and BB were fined. And of course no one needs to debate the competitive advantage THAT gave them.
Furthermore they were caught not once, but twice.
But the real issue here is that the only reason the Patriots were even fined a $750,000 by comparison is because the new commissioner wanted to make an example of the Patriots for breaking a rule. And if there were any doubt about that before, just ask a 49ers fan if there's an inclination on Goodell's part to flex his muscles by enforcing unenforceable and somewhat arcane rules that everyone's been violating for years, i.e. Tampering.
And lest you assert that "well, yeah but the Patriots lost a 1st round pick" don't kid yourself. Don Shula - yes he who asserted the Patriots should have an asterisk - was himself a willing participant in a tampering violation that cost the Dolphins THEIR 1st round pick. By those standards Shula and the Dolphins were as guilty of as serious a violation as the Patriots were.
So how serious was this violation? Who knows (see #1) but certainly Goodell wanted to make an example of the Patriots, just as he did with the 49ers - and as the Commissioner, he did exactly that.
4.) Everyone does it. -Is this speculation or have other teams been caught doing it. Link?
Great question. We've devoted a whole long thread to citing the many different violations with links to the reports. Pats Fans For Truth Fact Sheet (collect facts) [merged]
Here's one just to get started, citing filming of teams and other violations going back to 1955. Yeah, I'd have to say everyone does it or has done it at one time or another.
Does that make it "right"? No - but again, was Goodell making an example of the Pats as he is with tampering now? Or is this the worst thing since the blacksox scandal even though no one can say what competitive advantage was gained?
But the question on this topic is, where are all the righteous fans who cast the first stone when it comes to the above and other stories?
5. Lastly a question, why did he destroy the tapes?
Probably at the insistance of Kraft and the Patriots after the NFL gave the Spygate tape itself to Fox news, and effectively the world. They agreed to turn everything over only with the assurance they wouldn't see it on the nightly news.
For Goodell's part clearly there was someone in his office he couldn't trust - and as such destroying the tapes was the best course of action.
Let's remember here - Goodell's naive and bothed attempt to manage the whole Spygate affair (which he likely wishes MangIdiot had kept his mouth shut about just like every other team - or otherwise would approach the NFL quietly rather than handle it as he did) was intended to "protect the integrity of the game". Letting more tapes circulate for media speculation in the age of the baseball steriods scandal was NOT in his or the NFL's interest.
So I guess that about covers it. Seems to me that the real scandal here is how Goodell couldn't have botched things up worse in his handling of ... well just about everything. But I'm sure his effort to enforce unenforceable rules like tampering will go MUCH smoother than this investigation did.