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Old 11-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #1
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Default D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

It's natural to focus on the defensive backfield when the pass defense is as bad as it's been, and to be sure, it deserves a share of the blame. Still, with all the position-shuffling due to injury back there, the struggling is somewhat predictable.

Considering the relative health of the defensive line, I think the lack of a consistent pass rush is a more worrying issue. More specifically, the Pats get zero pressure from the interior when they aren't in a dime package with Cunningham lined up at tackle. After the first quarter, the Bills knew that Fitzpatrick would have a clean pocket, wide open throwing lanes to the middle of the field, and time for either a RB to come out of the backfield, a TE to find a middle-deep soft spot in our zone, or a wideout to cut in and run halfway across the field.

Wilfork is great, and can penetrate well for a player his size, but is still better used as a one-man road block vs. the run. The problem is that we seem to be getting little to no contribution from Love or Deaderick lining up in the 3-technique. Between the two of them, they have 1 sack, one additional QB hit, and zero balls tipped/batted down at the line. It says a lot about their lack of pass-rushing ability that Belichick sub them out for a 250lb. LB/DE whenever he can get away with it.

In training camp, it looked like BB was lining up Fanene as a 3-technique tackle more than at DE, but the knee injury he failed to disclose made that moot. There was hope to finally get some contribution from Ron Brace after a strong showing in camp, but between subsequent back and elbow injuries, he hasn't been able to get on the field much. Now, with Myron Pryor's rehab from a torn pec not progressing as fast as hoped, it doesn't look like there's going to be any help for our interior rush.

A side effect of the black hole at DT is that, with Cunningham spending most of his time there, he isn't available to spell Nincovich and Jones, leaving a problematic lack of depth at DE. If their elevated snap count is leaving them gassed in the 4th quarter, this could help explain why our pass D goes from bad to worse as the game goes on.

The only good news, I suppose, is that the acquisition of a good press corner like Aqib Talib might free BB+Patricia up to send an extra rusher more often.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Pass rush isn't great, but it isn't that bad. Chandler Jones is a borderline elite pass rusher. Just because he doesn't get a sack every down doesn't mean he isn't effective a lot of the time. Heck, the best pass rushers in the league get about one per game, or one out of every 30-40 passes. Cunningham has also been effective. The interior pass rush is struggling- you are correct- but this is not a horrible pass rush by any means, especially considering they rarely blitz.

The secondary is a stinking pile of dog excrement right now, and there's no second level of analysis. Did you happen to see the 4th and 4 play yesterday where Stevie Johnson was inexplicably ten yards wide open on a six yard-out pattern, while three Patriots stood there with their hands on their hips? Absolutely horrendous coverage, missed assignments, etc. What gets me isn't that they get beat, as I accept that the NFL has changed and passing the ball is much easier. I just can't stand the miscommunication out there. Every play it looks like there are four guys covering absolutely no one, completely confused, while they get torched for an easy 25 yards.


Source: Watching the games
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Love is not a pass-rushing DT. He's a pure Run-stopper. I think everyone knew that and no one expected him to be more. Problem is they dont have many other options at DT, so pairing two very similar players (wilfork and Love) is their only option and it leads to little pressure up the middle.

Hopefully its addressed in the draft...their are plenty of options for an interior rushing presence.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Honestly..i don't think i would blame the CBs yesterday anymore than the Dline not getting pressure
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Ice_Brady View Post
Pass rush isn't great, but it isn't that bad. Chandler Jones is a borderline elite pass rusher. Just because he doesn't get a sack every down doesn't mean he isn't effective a lot of the time. Heck, the best pass rushers in the league get about one per game, or one out of every 30-40 passes. Cunningham has also been effective. The interior pass rush is struggling- you are correct- but this is not a horrible pass rush by any means, especially considering they rarely blitz.

The secondary is a stinking pile of dog excrement right now, and there's no second level of analysis. Did you happen to see the 4th and 4 play yesterday where Stevie Johnson was inexplicably ten yards wide open on a six yard-out pattern, while three Patriots stood there with their hands on their hips? Absolutely horrendous coverage, missed assignments, etc. What gets me isn't that they get beat, as I accept that the NFL has changed and passing the ball is much easier. I just can't stand the miscommunication out there. Every play it looks like there are four guys covering absolutely no one, completely confused, while they get torched for an easy 25 yards.


Source: Watching the games
I was watching Jones for most of the game and he looked pretty ineffective one on one for most of the game. Borderline elite pass rushers don't go zero's across the board. I don't know if he was sick or injured, but he didn't look himself. In this game, pass rush was most certainly an issue.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

If the Patriots are going to continue playing 4-3 I think adding a pass-rushing DT has to be high on the priority list.

The biggest problem yesterday though was not DL or secondary it was with tackling.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

We need some inside pass rush. Wilfork is great at stopping the run and Love is good at it too. But none of them is a pass rusher. We need a player who can play inside on these pass situations and get pressure. A 3-tec DT pass rusher would be good.

Sure, Jones has been really good for a rookie so far and I really like him and think he's gonna go far. But he is not borderline elite yet as someone said. Not taking anything away from him, just stating.

If the inside pass rush improve the whole rush will improve a lot as the quarterback will not be able to step up in the pocket as much.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Ice_Brady

Pass rush isn't great, but it isn't that bad. Chandler Jones is a borderline elite pass rusher. Just because he doesn't get a sack every down doesn't mean he isn't effective a lot of the time. Heck, the best pass rushers in the league get about one per game, or one out of every 30-40 passes. Cunningham has also been effective. The interior pass rush is struggling- you are correct- but this is not a horrible pass rush by any means, especially considering they rarely blitz.

The secondary is a stinking pile of dog excrement right now, and there's no second level of analysis. Did you happen to see the 4th and 4 play yesterday where Stevie Johnson was inexplicably ten yards wide open on a six yard-out pattern, while three Patriots stood there with their hands on their hips? Absolutely horrendous coverage, missed assignments, etc. What gets me isn't that they get beat, as I accept that the NFL has changed and passing the ball is much easier. I just can't stand the miscommunication out there. Every play it looks like there are four guys covering absolutely no one, completely confused, while they get torched for an easy 25 yards.


Source: Watching the games

I was watching Jones for most of the game and he looked pretty ineffective one on one for most of the game. Borderline elite pass rushers don't go zero's across the board. I don't know if he was sick or injured, but he didn't look himself. In this game, pass rush was most certainly an issue.
he didn't record a sack, and it looked like his worst game against the run ive seen yet...but there were quite a few instances where he seemed to get good pressure. he was one of the weaker parts of the line yesterday though...which is shocking


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Old 11-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Give the defense some time to heal up and mature. We have a bunch of young guys playing and the more experience the better.

Judge them after we get Chung, Pryor, Talib on the field and Hightower and Dennard get more experience.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: D-Line, not Secondary, the Primary Problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Ice_Brady View Post
Pass rush isn't great, but it isn't that bad. Chandler Jones is a borderline elite pass rusher. Just because he doesn't get a sack every down doesn't mean he isn't effective a lot of the time. Heck, the best pass rushers in the league get about one per game, or one out of every 30-40 passes. Cunningham has also been effective. The interior pass rush is struggling- you are correct- but this is not a horrible pass rush by any means, especially considering they rarely blitz.
Overall the pass rush is poor. Having one (or 2 if you want to count Cunningham) good pass rusher is not enough to have a good team pass rush.
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