The Official B!tch about the secondary/pass coverage thread

[Deus Irae]

Originally Posted by DropKickFlutie

Disagree. The talent is there. They've spend high picks on the secondary for years. It's a secondary coaching issue.

Even back in 2007 when this secondary had talent like Asante and Rodney Harrison, the defense coughed up the lead in the big game bc the overall scheme is too vanilla. Since 2007 we've had good talent come in but they regress year after year because the coaching in the secondary is terrible. They need to bring in a legit secondary coach and fix key mistakes that have been happening every year.

The defense coughed up the lead in 2007 because there were holds that weren't called, Samuel blew a coverage, a scrub made a miracle catch against his helmet and a badly injured Hobbs was left on an island when the Patriots called an all-out blitz and didn't get to the QB.

Your premise fails.

[mgteich]

Obviously, we will discuss this at length during the bye week and during the offseason.

I think that you overestimate how many youngsters can be integrated into a defense.

CORNER
I suspect that McCourty, Dennard and Dowling will be back for 2013. They are capable of being our nickel and dime back. We need a veteran corner or two. I'm fine with drafting another top corner as we do every year, but that strategy hasn't worked well; that strategy requires us to be able to coach up the rookies and then develop them. You have us keeping Moore instead of Dowling; that could happen. I would prefer a better veteran if Dowling doesn't work out.

SAFETY
Wilson is a keeper. After Wilson, we need lots of help. I find it likely that Gregory will end up staying. We should definitely draft a couple of safeties.

SPECIAL TEAMS
i'm fine with Cole and Ebner.

COACHING
I would bring in an ex-head coach as secondary coach and assistant DC. I would also upgrade the scouting and evaluation team. Something is clearly missing.

BOTTOM LINE
Our approaches are almost identical. HOWEVER, I don't much change from the strategy of the past 6 years. Belichick has to be able to figure out what the problem is and fix it. Otherwise, we will continue to be over-rated as the best team (or one of the very best teams) in the nfl each year, and continue to disappoint at the end.

Originally Posted by ATippett56

One should consider trying to rebuild the New England Patriots defensive secondary utilizing the following as the foundation:

Rookie Cornerbacks

Dennard

Rookie Safeties

Wilson
Ebner (special teams)

Veteran Cornerbacks

Cole (special teams)

With cornerbacks Arrington, Dowling, McCourty, Moore; one could retain McCourty as a starting cornerback with Moore as the nickel cornerback during the interim.

With safeties Chung, Gregory; one should consider the alternatives (i.e., the 2013 NFL Draft).

[randomk1]

Originally Posted by mgteich

And to think that we used to complain about Samuel and Hobbs.

In other news. Samuel runs back a pick six in the 4th.

[ATippett56]

Originally Posted by mgteich

CORNER
I suspect that McCourty, Dennard and Dowling will be back for 2013. They are capable of being our nickel and dime back. We need a veteran corner or two. I'm fine with drafting another top corner as we do every year, but that strategy hasn't worked well; that strategy requires us to be able to coach up the rookies and then develop them. You have us keeping Moore instead of Dowling; that could happen. I would prefer a better veteran if Dowling doesn't work out.

What has Dowling shown to date that he is worth a roster spot? Arrington beat out Dowling in training camp as the starting right cornerback. Arrington was benched against Seattle and Dennard has leapfrogged Dowling as the starting right cornerback. Dowling is currently a defensive secondary enigma. Sterling Moore will be an ERFA, so he will be cheaper to retain than Arrington.

Originally Posted by mgteich

SAFETY
Wilson is a keeper. After Wilson, we need lots of help. I find it likely that Gregory will end up staying. We should definitely draft a couple of safeties.

Keeping Gregory on the roster is maintaining the status quo however his future may depend on the number of safeties drafted and/or signed in unrestricted free agency.

Originally Posted by mgteich

SPECIAL TEAMS
i'm fine with Cole and Ebner.

I have no problems whatsoever with a core of special teams players.

Originally Posted by mgteich

BOTTOM LINE
Our approaches are almost identical. HOWEVER, I don't much change from the strategy of the past 6 years. Belichick has to be able to figure out what the problem is and fix it. Otherwise, we will continue to be over-rated as the best team (or one of the very best teams) in the nfl each year, and continue to disappoint at the end.

Unless Bill Belichick is willing to splash some cash in free agency, for instance safety Kenny Phillips of the New York Giants, Bill Belichick will continue to rebuild the New England Patriots defense thru the NFL Draft.

Kenny Phillips - New York Giants - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

[JDot]

The Pats secondary is awful. And the Pats, and Pats fans are just going to have to deal with it. It is what it is..

[ATippett56]

It Is What It Is » Inside the numbers: Patriots chase history with woeful pass defense

• The defense has permitted an average of 288.8 passing yards per game, 28th in the NFL. It is the second highest passing yards per game average of a Patriots team through six games in franchise history. (Last year’s Patriots team allowed 322.2 passing yards per game in the first six contests of the season — the second highest yield through six games of any team in the Super Bowl era.)
  
• Opponents are completing 64.4 percent of passes, 25th in the NFL
  
• The Patriots have allowed 33 completions of 20+ yards, first in the NFL — and it’s not even close. Second highest total: 26.
  
• Opponents have a 100.9 QB rating, 27th in the NFL. That mark would shatter the previous record for the worst ever permitted by the Patriots in a season (92.2, 1972).
  
• The Patriots have allowed 79 passing 1st downs, 27th in the NFL.

[randomk1]

Damn...those are some depressing numbers. And it's not like we have faced top notch QBs. They are actually pretty ****ty

Locker,Kolb,Flacco,Fitzpatrick,Wilson, Peyton.

[TP76]

Originally Posted by ATippett56

It Is What It Is » Inside the numbers: Patriots chase history with woeful pass defense

Downright depressing.

[ctpatsfan77]

Originally Posted by TP76

Downright depressing.

That said, some of those are at least a bit misleading: part of the reason that the pass first downs is high is that the run first downs isn't (the Pats are around #10 in that stat).

OTOH, the 33 long pass plays (5.5/game) *is* concerning, and I'm guessing BB wants to see that rate come down, too.

[goheels22002]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

They've invested at least a 1st or second round pick in every draft since 2007:

2007. 1st on Meriweather, 6th on Mike Richardson
2008. 2nd on Wheatley, 4th on Wilhite
2009. 2nd on Chung, 2nd on Butler
2010. 1st on McCourty
2011. 2nd on Dowling (1st pick of the second round), 7th on Malcolm Williams
2012. 2nd on Wilson, 6th on Ebner, 7th on Dennard

So in the last 6 years, they've invested two 1st round and five 2nd round draft picks. Off the top of my head the only significant contracts during that time were for Steve Gregory (3yrs $9 million), Sanders (3yrs $9 million, Springs 3yrs $10.5 million and Bodden 4 yrs $22 million - all three were gone within a year of signing their contract.

So we've got two one's and five 2nds as well as roughly $50 million dollars in free agent contracts invested in this secondary.

So is it talent evaluation or something else? Is it how their coached up? Is it scheme? Are they thinking too much? Even when they have coverage, they don't seem to have a clue where the ball is. It's an automatic completion or a penalty.

One thing for certain is that the secondary is this teams Achilles's heel and whatever they're doing ain't working.

I don't get it either. The players coming in are good athletes and proven defensive backs.

What is with the big play? Russell hit three different receivers for plays that went more than 46 yards. You make those three plays and the Patriots not only win the game, they shut down that offense - three plays accounted for one-half of the Seahawks passing offense.