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Apologies to Ian for stealing the theme and thread title, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. One situation that I was looking for in this game was splitting Vereen out as a receiver. Got to see it in 2nd half TD drive and thought it was worth breaking down since it is a dimension that was underutilized last year.
Pats go empty on 3rd and 3. By having a RB and TE on the field, the Pats keep the option of striking to a running play (Saints were in the dime). Saints show man with 2 deep safeties (no shown). Vereen is outside the TE and matched up with a DB.
At the snap, the DB is sitting at the 1st down marker so Vereen has the potential to break inside or outside. The trailing TE would just do the opposite.
Mallett takes a quick 3 step drop and looks right. He has 3 potential targets to keep the defense honest, but the primary read is Vereen. The RT has to chop down the DE to give him a lane and the right-side WR needs to clear out the area. Vereen's quick outside cut and the threat of a crossing route freeing the TE outside (with the LB too far away to cover) forces the DB to stay at home for just long enough to give separation.
Mallett gets the ball out on-time and Vereen makes the catch past the 1st down marker. It is at this point where the play transitions from "dink-n-dunk" to a potential big gain. With the WR clearing out that side, Vereen can use his quickness to turn the corner.
Unfortunately, at this point you need to start using your imagination. The DB does a good job closing and not allowing Vereen to get around the corner clean...but imagine that same situation against a LB or a slower safety. Also, the CB should have been engaged with the right-side WR since it is doubtful he was ever a serious target.
Vereen is able to get an easy 10 yard gain with almost no downside risk. If he was covered by a slower player and the WR decided to block a little, Vereen could have been going full speed with only the safety (15 yards past the LOS) in front of him.
This is a variation of the 4th-n-2 play from 2009 (Faulk was on the "weak" side in that case) but it shows the potential in getting Vereen out in space. If this were a base defense or even a nickel, Vereen is likely going against a LB. With Hernandez or Gronk on his side, he is likely to have even more separation to get the corner.
This is particularly bad news for teams like the Jets and Ravens. Their LBs just can't cover laterally. If they press up the safeties to compensate, Vereen has shown the ability at Cal to run an effective wheel route to get downfield. I'm not sure how a team defends this without going zone, which Brady would destroy with his other targets. This formation needs to be used at least a couple of times a game this season.
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re: FILM STUDY: Shane Vereen as a Slot Receiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphors
Apologies to Ian for stealing the theme and thread title, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. One situation that I was looking for in this game was splitting Vereen out as a receiver. Got to see it in 2nd half TD drive and thought it was worth breaking down since it is a dimension that was underutilized last year.
Pats go empty on 3rd and 3. By having a RB and TE on the field, the Pats keep the option of striking to a running play (Saints were in the dime). Saints show man with 2 deep safeties (no shown). Vereen is outside the TE and matched up with a DB.
At the snap, the DB is sitting at the 1st down marker so Vereen has the potential to break inside or outside. The trailing TE would just do the opposite.
Mallett takes a quick 3 step drop and looks right. He has 3 potential targets to keep the defense honest, but the primary read is Vereen. The RT has to chop down the DE to give him a lane and the right-side WR needs to clear out the area. Vereen's quick outside cut and the threat of a crossing route freeing the TE outside (with the LB too far away to cover) forces the DB to stay at home for just long enough to give separation.
Mallett gets the ball out on-time and Vereen makes the catch past the 1st down marker. It is at this point where the play transitions from "dink-n-dunk" to a potential big gain. With the WR clearing out that side, Vereen can use his quickness to turn the corner.
Unfortunately, at this point you need to start using your imagination. The DB does a good job closing and not allowing Vereen to get around the corner clean...but imagine that same situation against a LB or a slower safety. Also, the CB should have been engaged with the right-side WR since it is doubtful he was ever a serious target.
Vereen is able to get an easy 10 yard gain with almost no downside risk. If he was covered by a slower player and the WR decided to block a little, Vereen could have been going full speed with only the safety (15 yards past the LOS) in front of him.
This is a variation of the 4th-n-2 play from 2009 (Faulk was on the "weak" side in that case) but it shows the potential in getting Vereen out in space. If this were a base defense or even a nickel, Vereen is likely going against a LB. With Hernandez or Gronk on his side, he is likely to have even more separation to get the corner.
This is particularly bad news for teams like the Jets and Ravens. Their LBs just can't cover laterally. If they press up the safeties to compensate, Vereen has shown the ability at Cal to run an effective wheel route to get downfield. I'm not sure how a team defends this without going zone, which Brady would destroy with his other targets. This formation needs to be used at least a couple of times a game this season.
Is it possible to put this in the LIKE HOF?......I noticed the same when I saw them split Vereen out wide....This is the Josh influence,imo......This will be a problem for most opposing LB's......A BIG problem.....They must commit the inbox safety to Gronk or AH,or Dime,it will influence the defense to declare zone,as the OP suggests.
But what I especially like is the slip screen option.....The pats love this.....Usually it's done on the left side,as Brady is right-handed,and it is a faster set-up on the left side.However,if you use a fast running back on the right offensive side,who then loops back towards the formation on a screen,what you get is:.......A back "running in space",rather than a wideout or a TE.Speed is not the most important factor in a slip screen....patience and vision are.
This is also why Aaron Hernandez is more dangerous on a screen than any other TE or WR on the Patriots.....because he has the qualities of a running back in space.
Lastly,I always have the image of the Ravens running a screen to Ray Rice.....What's the first word out of your mouth?.......SH-T!
I hope Josh can develop Vereen,so that other teams will say the same thing
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NIc Post, Met. I think we will see a lot of this kind of thing. Last season....and the season before, I think we erred in not using our RB's enough as passing threats. It allowed the defense to squeeze the middle of the field in tight man or zone coverages. and use pressure to force Brady to get the ball out quickly.
I think the revived screen game we expect to see is just part of the strategy to get teams out of those tight man coverages. They'll have to because if we are successful in getting the ball to our RB's (Vareen, Ridley, and Wdeoody) in space, it will wreak havoc on their man coverage, because the rest of the secondary will take themselves out of the play running with their receivers, so if the RB beats just one man, it can turn into a very long play. Against a zone, the defenders can react up to the ball much more quickly.
At worst its easy yardage without much sweat, but at best it will not only yield some long gainers, it will also loose up the coverage for the rest of the team. Kind of like the short threat yin to Lloyd's deep threat yang, and Welker, Gronk and Hernandez benefit.
One situation that I was looking for in this game was splitting Vereen out as a receiver. Got to see it in 2nd half TD drive and thought it was worth breaking down since it is a dimension that was underutilized last year. Vereen is able to get an easy 10 yard gain with almost no downside risk. If he was covered by a slower player and the WR decided to block a little, Vereen could have been going full speed with only the safety (15 yards past the LOS) in front of him.
This is a variation of the 4th-n-2 play from 2009 (Faulk was on the "weak" side in that case) but it shows the potential in getting Vereen out in space. If this were a base defense or even a nickel, Vereen is likely going against a LB. With Hernandez or Gronk on his side, he is likely to have even more separation to get the corner.
This is particularly bad news for teams like the Jets and Ravens. Their LBs just can't cover laterally. If they press up the safeties to compensate, Vereen has shown the ability at Cal to run an effective wheel route to get downfield. I'm not sure how a team defends this without going zone, which Brady would destroy with his other targets. This formation needs to be used at least a couple of times a game this season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by italia44
Is it possible to put this in the LIKE HOF?....This is the Josh influence,imo......This will be a problem for most opposing LB's......A BIG problem.....They must commit the inbox safety to Gronk or AH,or Dime,it will influence the defense to declare zone,as the OP suggests.
But what I especially like is the slip screen option.....The pats love this.....Usually it's done on the left side,as Brady is right-handed,and it is a faster set-up on the left side.However,if you use a fast running back on the right offensive side,who then loops back towards the formation on a screen,what you get is:.......A back "running in space",rather than a wideout or a TE.Speed is not the most important factor in a slip screen....patience and vision are.
This is also why Aaron Hernandez is more dangerous on a screen than any other TE or WR on the Patriots.....because he has the qualities of a running back in space.
I hope Josh can develop Vereen,so that other teams will say the same thing
This is just phenomenal stuff. Really great work. I agree with putting this in the "Like HOF".
This is also why I was so excited when we got Vereen in 2011, why I was so disappointed at his lack of involvement last year, and why I had high hopes for him when Josh McD came back. McDaniels used Knowshon Moreno in much the same way in Denver when he was HC, with good success, and Vereen has a similar skillset (I keep hoping Denver will cut Moreno and we can pick him up for depth as a "flex back" along with Vereen). Having a back with those kind of receiving skills and ability in space just magnifies the options available to the offense, especially when combined with a guy as versatile as Aaron Hernandez and the blocking/receiving prowess of the multiple TE formation. It's nearly impossible for opposing defenses to adjust.
BTW, regarding the comment about the Jets' and Ravens' LBs and lack of lateral mobility, Gregg Rosenthal had this tidbit on the Jets-Bengals preseason game last night:
Quote:
Bart Scott couldn't hang in pass coverage with Bengals running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis. That's a flashback to 2011.
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This is just phenomenal stuff. Really great work. I agree with putting this in the "Like HOF".
Abso-effing-lootly.
[quote] Having a back with those kind of receiving skills and ability in space just magnifies the options available to the offense,[QUOTE]
I must agree but then I find myself shaking my head at why we even need such an option. With all of the weapons we have, say, as opposed to 2006, why would we be so hungry for one more?
Well, we're going to play some pretty good dime configurations, and unless we make them eat it consistently this other option could save the day.
I do like what we've seen from Vereen so far. The kid could have monster value in the open field. There are going to be some matchups that really favor him taking it a long way.
Metaphors, when I read the post earlier, I literally stopped halfway through, scrolled down to the bottom of the post, clicked like, and went back up to finish the rest of it. I couldn't wait until I was done with the whole post to like it, that's how good it was. Very well done.
The passing game, where the sideline tight camera angle really bites the breakdown people in the ass. The All-22 video can't come soon enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphors
Saints show man with 2 deep safeties (no shown). Vereen is outside the TE and matched up with a DB.
(...)
You can't see the safeties, so you really can't tell what coverage the Saints are in on this play. But if you look at the top of your screen, you'll see classic hard Cover-2 technique from the outside corner: he's sitting at five yards, on the outside of the wide receiver, ready to jam that outside shoulder and deny the release up the sideline.
You also see that inside defender up there is not pursuing his "man" running that out route, and is instead drifting back into the hook/curl area between the numbers and hash. Furthermore, the linebacker in the middle of the field is just opening up at the pass read like he's heading for a zone drop, and he basically follows the QB's eyes the whole play.
So to me it actually looks like some sort of split-field zone coverage scheme. Or perhaps the Saints are rolling a Cover 3 shell to the weak side. Who knows without those safeties in the picture.
The vision cone was a nice touch.
Quote:
The RT has to chop down the DE to give him a lane and the right-side WR needs to clear out the area. Vereen's quick outside cut and the threat of a crossing route freeing the TE outside (with the LB too far away to cover) forces the DB to stay at home for just long enough to give separation.
I think a particularily interesting aspect of this play is that it appears from your pics that the Pats have Silvestro chip the left end, #93, who then of course gets cut. That opens up the throwing lane on the out, so as you otherwise noted it's very much a quick-read, short yardage play, with everything designed to make that out as easy to complete as possible, and every other route essentially meaningless.
Also I'm pretty sure that QB is Hoyer, not Mallett.