ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW
Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!
View Poll Results: How Do You Think the Pats Offense Will "Evolve" in 2012?
Go back to a WR-dominated spread offense a la 2007-2009
3
4.41%
Keep the 2010-2011 offense but upgrade the WR personnel to use the entire field
52
76.47%
Create something different than what we've seen before (please specify)
I hate to play the obvious card but it will be the most diverse offense we've ever seen.
With 5 non OL/QB available :
3 TE/2 RB we can do that easily.
2 TE/2 2 WR/1 RB this should be the "base" with Welker and Lloyd at WR.
2 TE/3 WR add Gaffney to the WR.
2 TE/3 WR "stretch the field", how about Lloyd, Stallworth, Gaffney to give Welker a breather.
*1 TE/4 WR, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.
*1 TE/3 WR/1RB, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney or Stallworth and a RB
and it goes on and on.
I expect a ton of personnel packages.
Last year we had no 3rd TE now we have the decent Fells.
Last year Branch was our #2 WR and, I guess, Underwood was #3. Now Lloyd will be #2, Gaffney #3, Stallworth will get his packages, Branch should be a good backup all over.
(note, # refer to how many catches I expect, we won't have a true #1, #2, #3 just packages).
Bottom line, we were very limited last year with no third TE and no real WR after Welker and a gimpy Branch. Now we have a third TE plus Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.
The X Factor is the RB like others have said. Although I realized it wouldn't happen I said before the draft that a huge trade up for Richardson might make this the first truly unstoppable offense ever. Imagine the TE, the WR and also having to stop Richardson. Now, Ridley, Vereen, etc, won't be Richardson who is a true stud. But with what we'll be throwing out there ar WR and TE, if the RB should have very easy pickings if they're as good as I think they can be.
Lastly - why the * next to the bottom 2 packages ? If we had the current personnel last year we could have played those package in the SB without Gronk. Imagine that we have that group WITHOUT Gronk.
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.
About the only thing that can be determined is the personnel should be there to force a defense to defend every inch of the field.
I can imagine NFLN starting a weekly show on the Patriots offense.
FEATURED ADVERTISEMENT
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!
Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.
NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98
Also just wait for the 22 personnel (2 TE, 2 RB) with just Welker or Lloyd at WR. Defense brings in a run package only to see Vereen and Hernandez split out as WR. Pick your poison there - play the big defense we split them out and throw. Play the throw and we have the big personnel in there. I have to sound like a euphoric little girl but the options Josh has are limited only by his imagination and he's never lacked for that.
Also just wait for the 22 personnel (2 TE, 2 RB) with just Welker or Lloyd at WR. Defense brings in a run package only to see Vereen and Hernandez split out as WR. Pick your poison there - play the big defense we split them out and throw. Play the throw and we have the big personnel in there. I have to sound like a euphoric little girl but the options Josh has are limited only by his imagination and he's never lacked for that.
I can't wait to see this. If Vereen and Ridley develop it will dramatically transform the offense.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid
"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi
In 2011, we were limited without a #3 WR and a #3 TE. We need the functionality that these players provide, as well as the depth provided. We will now have a solid #4 receiver in case of injury (and perhaps even a 5th).
We will also have more flexibility with the RB's and FB. Sending 4 receivers out (including TE's) is fine, as long as someone is able to be in the backfield as an outlet and to protect Brady. We will also have more options in short yardage having a fullback and havind Addai. We will also see what Josh has in store for Ridley. Obviously, Vareen is a total unknown, but he could move Woodhead to the inactive list.
The difficulty will be in deciding which skill players to have active.
BOTTOM LINE
Belichick has used free agency to give Josh and Brady much needed additional tools. Let the fun begin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelichickFan
I hate to play the obvious card but it will be the most diverse offense we've ever seen.
With 5 non OL/QB available :
3 TE/2 RB we can do that easily.
2 TE/2 2 WR/1 RB this should be the "base" with Welker and Lloyd at WR.
2 TE/3 WR add Gaffney to the WR.
2 TE/3 WR "stretch the field", how about Lloyd, Stallworth, Gaffney to give Welker a breather.
*1 TE/4 WR, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.
*1 TE/3 WR/1RB, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney or Stallworth and a RB
and it goes on and on.
I expect a ton of personnel packages.
Last year we had no 3rd TE now we have the decent Fells.
Last year Branch was our #2 WR and, I guess, Underwood was #3. Now Lloyd will be #2, Gaffney #3, Stallworth will get his packages, Branch should be a good backup all over.
(note, # refer to how many catches I expect, we won't have a true #1, #2, #3 just packages).
Bottom line, we were very limited last year with no third TE and no real WR after Welker and a gimpy Branch. Now we have a third TE plus Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.
The X Factor is the RB like others have said. Although I realized it wouldn't happen I said before the draft that a huge trade up for Richardson might make this the first truly unstoppable offense ever. Imagine the TE, the WR and also having to stop Richardson. Now, Ridley, Vereen, etc, won't be Richardson who is a true stud. But with what we'll be throwing out there ar WR and TE, if the RB should have very easy pickings if they're as good as I think they can be.
Lastly - why the * next to the bottom 2 packages ? If we had the current personnel last year we could have played those package in the SB without Gronk. Imagine that we have that group WITHOUT Gronk.
Also just wait for the 22 personnel (2 TE, 2 RB) with just Welker or Lloyd at WR. Defense brings in a run package only to see Vereen and Hernandez split out as WR. Pick your poison there - play the big defense we split them out and throw. Play the throw and we have the big personnel in there. I have to sound like a euphoric little girl but the options Josh has are limited only by his imagination and he's never lacked for that.
Not to derail this excellent thread, but as gr8 all of this offensive potential looks, just remember that we just devoted our entire draft to the defense, and along with some returning high-profile injured players, the defense could become at least adequate, if not better.
This team is also young and improving, for the most part, and I don't see any major areas of weakness, if the off season additions perform to reasonable expectations.
We could be looking at the start of something really special in New England.
__________________
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will end up plowing for those who kept their swords in the first place! - Anonymous internet poster
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Last edited by The Gr8est; 05-23-2012 at 09:59 AM..
With all of the threads about WR competition, RB signings, potential use of FBs, 3rd and 4th TEs, etc., one thing is clear: the Pats have signed a ton of skill players this offseason, but they will have to be selective in paring down the final roster and figuring out which players to keep and what kind of an offense they want to run. I came across this article from Football Outsiders which came out just before the Super Bowl - after it was announced that Bill O'Brien was leaving and after Josh McDaniels was re-hired, but before FA and the draft. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been discussed on this site yet - as with the thread on the evolution of the defense, my apologies if I'm re-treading old ground. Since the article is Insider content, I'm posting most (but not all) of it:
I don't think Ian offers dispensation for posting the bulk of something because it's by subscription. I love how folks on the Planet get to just post it all, but Ian has heen pretty consistent here in his unwillingness to take that approach. Even if his stance isn't enforced consistently...
It's a pretty simplistic analysis. And the Pats did indeed sign Brandon Lloyd in the offseason. But if all they were trying to do was achieve what the FO article suggests, then I'm not sure about why they did the following:
- Signed RB Joseph Addai. Depth or injury injurance for Vereen/Ridley, or does it signal more of an involvement of the running game.Depth, injury insurance and veteran presence. He replaced BJGE and Faulk with one FA signing.
- Signed FBs Tony Fiammetta and Spencer Larsen. Decided it was better to carry a FB than have to keep utilizing OLmen due in part to losses and potential losses creating depth concerns within that unit.
- Signed Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth and Anthony Gonzalez in addition to Lloyd.Signed Gaffney because he could. Stallworth and Gonzalez were potential depth signings if they even make the 53 and insurance if others don't or potential shadow roster if they don't.
- Added TE Daniel Fells.This was the easiest. Can't run a 2 TE offense effectively/efficiently with only 2 TE's on the roster because **** happens. I noted that last season, too. But either because he couldn't land the right one or because of roster need elsewhere, we ended up short handed at the worst possible time.
I'm not sure what BB and Josh McDaniels are ultimately going to be cooking on offense. But it seems more elaborate than just tweaking the spread offense to use the TEs with Hernandez lining up at WR more often.
How do people think the offense will evolve? Will Josh McD go back to the spread? Will he keep the offense basically as is but tweak it a bit with more of an outside threat? Or will the offense be something different from either 2007-2009 or 2010-2011?
I think they are just tweeking it and hoping to refine it and hoping to have the depth to run it consistently as they intended to last season. Ocho really screwed the pooch on BOB last year, as did the situation with the 2 rookie backs, Benny's toe, Woodhead's ankle and groin and Faulk's rehab status. They utilized FA extensively to potentially upgrade depth on offense, and a combination of FA and pretty much the entire draft to upgrade talent on defense. They may not be done on defense pending OTA's and early TC. They haven't issued Carter's or Ihedibo's jersey numbers yet.
Also just wait for the 22 personnel (2 TE, 2 RB) with just Welker or Lloyd at WR. Defense brings in a run package only to see Vereen and Hernandez split out as WR. Pick your poison there - play the big defense we split them out and throw. Play the throw and we have the big personnel in there. I have to sound like a euphoric little girl but the options Josh has are limited only by his imagination and he's never lacked for that.
I hope it also eliminates the need to use Hernandez as a running back. It's an effective change up but he runs too high out of the back field and got lit up a few times. He means too much to the offense.
I hope the FB additions means they'll line up in an obvious running situation and ram it down the other team's throat when needed. I'm not adovating 3 yards and a cloud of dust because with this roster that idiotic. But with a 10+ point lead late in the game instead of passing or letting Brady sneak a 3rd and long one and get broken in half by Ray Lewis run the ball. Make them honor it and then play action when needed.
I do hope when teams go really small they show they will commit to the run and force DBs off the field.
But your summary of all they can do is really good.
__________________
"When Peyton Manning was a kid he used to go to bed at night and dream about throwing the winning touchdown for the Saints in the Superbowl. And on Sunday he did."
There's only two conclusions for Patriots fans on rookies. They are either a bust or being fitted for their bust in Canton.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I am going to propose a course of action that is completely contradictory to what has been suggested. Yet it also answers the questions of what is Bill Belichick up to, and doing, and what does it imply.
My thesis is that Bill is and has been preparing for a "ground and pound", very balanced Offense. But with a unconventional twist.
Bill will have a complete running Offense on the field almost always, with two TEs and some big backs, maybe even including a FB. Every one of whom, can be a reliable reciever. He has drafted and signed some awfully big Offensive linemen, much bigger than was the norm before.
Good Bye Nick Kaczur, hello bigger Sebastian Volmer. Good bye Matt Light, hello big guy Nate Solder. Good bye, great pulling Steven Neal, hello massive Marcus Cannon. Good bye quick Dan Koppen, hello Big Dan Connelly.
I believe Bill intends to improve his Defense too, with better personnel, but just as much by dominating TOP, and keeping them off the field. With the passing rules in effect, Bill appears to have decided that the best and only Defense is keep the opponent's Offense off the field.
Unlike the usual "ground and pound", good run, poor pass teams, this run Offense can shift, without substituting any players, into a deadly passing game. A deadly 2TE, passing game as has been demonstrated already, in 2011.
When the Defense spends 28 minutes on the field instead of 32 minute per game, stats will change. As well as having a deeper more talented defensive squad, the Defensive stats will become much more respectable, almost as a matter of course.
I am going to propose a course of action that is completely contradictory to what has been suggested. Yet it also answers the questions of what is Bill Belichick up to, and doing, and what does it imply.
My thesis is that Bill is and has been preparing for a "ground and pound", very balanced Offense. But with a unconventional twist.
Bill will have a complete running Offense on the field almost always, with two TEs and some big backs, maybe even including a FB. Every one of whom, can be a reliable reciever. He has drafted and signed some awfully big Offensive linemen, much bigger than was the norm before.
Good Bye Nick Kaczur, hello bigger Sebastian Volmer. Good bye Matt Light, hello big guy Nate Solder. Good bye, great pulling Steven Neal, hello massive Marcus Cannon. Good bye quick Dan Koppen, hello Big Dan Connelly.
I believe Bill intends to improve his Defense too, with better personnel, but just as much by dominating TOP, and keeping them off the field. With the passing rules in effect, Bill appears to have decided that the best and only Defense is keep the opponent's Offense off the field.
Unlike the usual "ground and pound", good run, poor pass teams, this run Offense can shift, without substituting any players, into a deadly passing game. A deadly 2TE, passing game as has been demonstrated already, in 2011.
When the Defense spends 28 minutes on the field instead of 32 minute per game, stats will change. As well as having a deeper more talented defensive squad, the Defensive stats will become much more respectable, almost as a matter of course.
I have wanted more run/pass balance and more integration since 2009. I'd live to be able to pound the ball occasionally a la 2004. And I'd love more run/pass imagination. But by no stretch of my very vivid imagination can I imagine going to a ground and pound approach as our primary offense.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid
"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi
Given the two previous posts (ground and pound..), I think this tidbit of information is appropriate in this thread as a bit of something to think about with the passing:
The Patriots will have 5 of the 2011 NFL's top 22 receivers in terms of receptions to drop ratio (100 targets minimum):
That very group is one that I'm hoping to see out there as a morphing attack, with Hernandez sometimes in the backfield and sometimes strung out in a 5 wide look.
__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius
40Likes
Re: How the Pats Offense Will Evolve
Re: How the Pats Offense Will Evolve
Linear Mode
