The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same class

[lawrence welker]

Originally Posted by shmessy

Sorry it took me so long to edit the thread title.

So slow with the ban-hammer too LOL

[Willie55]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

I like the IF game. IF Asante Samuel hadn't dropped an easy interception against the Giants, Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. IF the ref had called in the grasp when the Patriots had Eli Manning sacked, or on the same play, IF holding was called, Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. And IF David Tyree, who isn't even the NFL anymore I don't believe, didn't make the greatest catch in Super Bowl history, with Rodney Harrison hanging on his neck, then Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. Damn IFs!

[BradyFTW!]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

Tom Brady has won 7 hypothetical super bowls, so he still wins even in your made-up "what if Mendenhall didn't fumble?" land.

[FSUPatsFan]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Well, there are two answers to your question. First, I don't think it's fair to say Brady is better than Ben at getting it done in "big spots." Maybe big games overall.

So, if I had to take one guy to start one must win game, I would lean toward Brady.

But if youre talking about a 2 minute drive, down by 4, starting deep in your own territory, I go with Ben. I've seen him pull off too many houdini like miracles over the years. He has a unique ability to look lousy for 3 quarters and then magically turn it on in the end finds a way to get it done.

I'll take the quarterback that looks great for 4 quarters and puts the game away early versus the one that looks lousy for 3 quarters and finds a way to "magically get it done"

Also, the only reason Ben is able to look bad for three quarters is because he has a defense that keeps them in the game. It's his own doing that causes him to have to pull off "houdini like miracles"

Did you happen to watch the Patriots/Cowboys game? How was that for "finding a way to get it done"

[PatsFanSince74]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

...
I will go so far as to make a guarantee that Ben will throw for at least 300 yards in this game, and if it's a shootout, he may reach 400. Mark it down! If he does this, and especially if the Steelers win, you can expect to see me back here reaping my accolades. If this does not happen, or if NE wins convincingly, don't expect to see me around here for awhile...at least until these two teams meet again, by which time hopefully everyone will have forgotten about this guarantee.

I guess that pretty much says it all...you'll come back to crow if Ben does real well but not to eat crow if he doesn't. The Opposition Posters whom I respect on this board take another approach. They might come back to talk a little trash if their team wins, but they also come back to say "we wuz whupped" when they lose.

Save yourself the trouble, by the way, and just don't come back.

See ya!

[shmessy]

Originally Posted by lawrence welker

So slow with the ban-hammer too LOL

More fun to torture 'em.

[PatsFan24]

Originally Posted by StainlessStill

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

Ben had a pick 6 in the SB last year. Brady has played in 4 SBs and never had a pick 6. In fact in 4 SB games he only has one INT and seven TDs. Brady has won 75% of the SB he played in. Ben has won 66%. And the other thing...the Pats only needed a FG. This idea that Brady should be punished because his team didn't need a TD and only a FG is just stupid. He did exactly what he needed to do, put his team in position to win the game. To say it is less than throwing a TD is really nit picking.

[RJB87]

Woah, woah, woah let's not whip out stats versus stats in Super Bowl games, guys. The sample size is way too small to draw anything meaningful. You have to measure post season vs post season and even then that sample size is still kinda small to really quantify anything useful. Apples to apples is great and all but it's still no good when you only have 5 or 6 bites on each apple to compare.

PS: I'm a die hard Pats fan. But I'm also a statistic nut.

[Reckedtrek]

He's not a Patriot anymore, but this is just too damn funny not to enjoy!

Isn't it?

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Simkin

Plus Tom Brady did it in 2007. Obviously 46342 old Harrison is not Polamalu, Adalius Thomas is not James Harrison and that.

Huh?

Actually, the Cardinals offense absolutely steamrolled the Stealer defense. Absent the comeback, the Stealer defense pitched the single greatest collapse in Super Bowl history.

That Harrison pick 6 was actually him screwing up by dropping into coverage.

Always interesting how luck falls into it.