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Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg
Why 12 minutes? Does everyone stop working at kickoff?
Yes. When the ball is kicked off, maybe some coaching staff actually try to, you know, coach the game.
Dean Pees: "Bill what are you doing?"
Bill Belichichick: "Tape was late. You'll have to go without me as I finish up sign stealing."
Maybe it is just me, but I doubt that conversation happened.
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Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.
Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicianmerl
Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.
You are correct in stating that a transfer would not be necessary. My basic point in this exercise is that a Team would only need to look at a very few specific plays....and I argue it would be third down pass plays. If they can find some useful info, then they can use it late in the game. With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.
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Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg
You got me on the conficated TAPE. Regardless, taping 32 defensive signals and flashing to the scoreboard would take (at 15 seconds per signal/flash) is 8 minutes per half of video. I would assume a team would have the technology to transfer video faster than actual play back time.
Boy are you persistent. Unfortunately a persistent retard is still a retard.
Did you read
Quote:
It can be done - Clayton reported he uncovered through sources that at least three teams were doing just that in 2006, though none of them was the Patriots. It requires a dedicated staff on site who match up the polaroids to tape that has been downloaded to computer according to John in a matter of seconds. So maybe those teams were not recording from the sidelines using standard video cameras in hiding in plain sight. He said teams who were doing it had the information ready about 12 minutes into the second half. If true I think these are the teams we were punished for because we were caught with tape and they weren't. I think the punishment was heightened to send them a message at our expense because absent a first round draft penalty they are likely still doing it.
I think the Commissioner believed Bill when he stated we did not use tape in game. Teams who did likely would have no use for the extensive written analysis we then compiled post game and retained. Our use was to map playcalling trends specific to systems and coordinators, information we could tap even when they moved on to another organization. Theirs was to crack codes in game from game to game, to facilitate second half adjustments on offense. Extensive notes would be of no use to them because signals change. Clayton said the "tell" on those teams if you knew who they were was fairly dramatic second half performances when compared to the first half. I would guess a research project would be to look for teams whose defense played well in the first half only to be almost inexplicably ***** slapped late in the third and fourth quarter - and see who they were playing...
For me one formerly predictable team that had for 2 years been playing almost rope a dope first half's only to pull away late immediately came to mind. Especially given they had a master signal decipherer on staff coaching their OL. But they were coached by a saint who would never do anything illegal, so... I guess that couldn't be.
by Mo Lewis Rocks?
Take away the vitriol and learn a bit, based on your boy John Clayton.
Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg
For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.
WRONG.
Let's just clarify this:
DIGITAL VIDEO FROM A DIGITAL NEEDS TO BE CAPTURED IN REAL-TIME. I work in digital video for a living, if you know of a way to capture from a DV tape faster than real-time, please come to my work and show me.
Unless they recorded onto a hard drive (we do it at my work, and yes, you can then move the files over, even that takes time, but considerably less than recording onto tape )- and I'm nearly certain they didn't - they would not be able to capture all the video they took from the first half during half time.
Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg
For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.
Let's just say it is possible, then what. That is not against the rules. It is where they taped from. The sideline. That was against the rules. We admitted that was wrong and paid the man.
Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg
You are correct in stating that a transfer would not be necessary. My basic point in this exercise is that a Team would only need to look at a very few specific plays....and I argue it would be third down pass plays. If they can find some useful info, then they can use it late in the game. With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.
Yes, your point is stupid. No team ever, in thehistorygoing back to 1922, changed their signals.
I can't believe you have not thought of that.
Let's say you are right. The evil Patriots now know the signals. Not one coach in the league was smart enough to change signals?
That is the conclusion YOU are coming to. Gee, you must think your coach is an idiot.
Last edited by castlelong1; 04-09-2008 at 02:21 PM..
Reason: typos, new keyboard
Re: Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"
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