Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime" - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

***Rob0729*** · 04-09-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

First, it has been well reported that the NFL confiscated a VIDEOTAPE from Matt Estrella. So who cares what happens in the age of digital video? The signals were videotaped onto an analog tape. So they would have had to transfer the tape to a digital format to do what you are sugguesting. That would mean that the transfer time would be at least the length of the tape and that doesn't include pre and post prep work. So it would have taken the Patriots an hour or two at halftime to get to the point they could process the video in a split second.

Second, even if they used digital cameras, it would require the cameraman to make each defensive signal and catalog it so they were able to pull us signals that quickly. That means they would have at least needed on other person to work with Estrella.

Third, as stated, there are three signal callers with two dummy callers and one real caller. The person who is the live caller can change over the game several times and calls also can change over time. That means the Pats in a very shot period of time would have to determine who was the live caller and whether the signals every changed over the first half onto of decifering what a particular signal meant.

So if you ignore simple logic and provide assume the Patriots used technology they clearly didn't have, I guess it could be true that the Pats decoded plays during halftime. And of course, the psychics the Pats use to read opposing coaches' minds also have their detailed reports all typed up by halftime too.

miDeuce · 04-09-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg

Why actual video?

Because if they were shooting on a Digital Video Camera that records to a disk there wouldn't have been a tape for the Jets to confiscate and send to the NFL.

***AndyJohnson*** · 04-09-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

Do you have any concept whatsoever of how plays are signalled? If you really think that you can take 5 or 6 plays and effectively decode signals, you must think the signals are "If I touch my hat its zone" "If i touch my shoulder its man" and "If I grab my b@lls its a bliltz"

All of that aside.
If one half of a football game could allow teams to decode signals, why would you even need to film it?
You would take one, or even 5 guys working together to watch the signal, chart it, chart the defense played, and then decipher it. Cameras would be unnecessary and in fact, only slow the process.

BrianPat · 04-09-2008, 01:36 PM

This is silly, there's no way the video could be converted to a usable format for decoding signals then reviewed in time to be used at all in the second half. I'm not expert, but I've used Avid editing equipment and worked with video conversions, the Brady to Moss TD pass that broke the record took me 10 minutes alone to edit out and convert and I was using high end equipment. I know that any tape driven camera needs to be streamed to digitial format, which means playing the video to the computer, which can be in fast forward with some equipment. You can't copy video off tape, even DV tape needs to be streamed. Granted I'm assuming they used tapes because everyone said they were tapes. DVD and HD Camcorders, you can just copy the video file because it's already in MPEG format.

***KontradictioN*** · 04-09-2008, 01:37 PM

You guys are forgetting one thing: Belichick ate his Wheaties and got the decoder ring out of it. Of course it's possible for BB to decode tapes at halftime.

nashvillepatsfan · 04-09-2008, 01:43 PM

[QUOTE=AndyJohnson;858719] "If I touch my hat its zone" "If i touch my shoulder its man" and "If I grab my b@lls its a bliltz"QUOTE]

So what was the purpose in this thread again? Oh, to avoid facing the fact that we couldnt use the video during the game, and that no other teams have ever broken a rule

***MoLewisrocks*** · 04-09-2008, 01:46 PM

It can be done - Clayton reported he uncovered through sources that at least three teams were doing just that in 2006, though none of them was the Patriots. It requires a dedicated staff on site who match up the polaroids to tape that has been downloaded to computer according to John in a matter of seconds. So maybe those teams were not recording from the sidelines using standard video cameras in hiding in plain sight. He said teams who were doing it had the information ready about 12 minutes into the second half. If true I think these are the teams we were punished for because we were caught with tape and they weren't. I think the punishment was heightened to send them a message at our expense because absent a first round draft penalty they are likely still doing it.

I think the Commissioner believed Bill when he stated we did not use tape in game. Teams who did likely would have no use for the extensive written analysis we then compiled post game and retained. Our use was to map playcalling trends specific to systems and coordinators, information we could tap even when they moved on to another organization. Theirs was to crack codes in game from game to game, to facilitate second half adjustments on offense. Extensive notes would be of no use to them because signals change. Clayton said the "tell" on those teams if you knew who they were was fairly dramatic second half performances when compared to the first half. I would guess a research project would be to look for teams whose defense played well in the first half only to be almost inexplicably ***** slapped late in the third and fourth quarter - and see who they were playing...

For me one formerly predictable team that had for 2 years been playing almost rope a dope first half's only to pull away late immediately came to mind. Especially given they had a master signal decipherer on staff coaching their OL. But they were coached by a saint who would never do anything illegal, so... I guess that couldn't be.

sebman2112 · 04-09-2008, 01:48 PM

This entire thing is stupid.

First, I process and edit video almost every day, so I know a few things about the procedures.

Depending on your equipment, you could process the video rather quickly, and matching the plays up to the defensive signals used wouldn't be all that hard. So, I have no doubt that you could get all the info needed from the video by halftime.

But, I have MAJOR issues with those who think NE used this video for in-game use, and that they somehow gained an unfair advantage with video.

1) Teams constantly change their defensive signals. This used to be on more of a game to game basis, but teams now change their signals from half to half, or even quarter to quarter. Also, On offense what seems like the same play call (if you can hear the QB) can actually be an entirely different play the second time around.

2) Stealing defensive signals IS NOT against the rules. You can steal defensive signals using the naked eye, or even binoculars, and it's not against the rules. Some backup QB's will spend half the game on the sideline trying to figure out the other teams signals, and certain coaches are especially good at figuring out opposing signals, as well. Some ex players have claimed they used to have the other teams signals all figured out by the end of the first quarter, or first half.

So, I think it's more than possible to get the info needed by halftime, but I also don't think a camera was needed for that, as you can get the same info using other methods. I also think it really doesn't matter since stealing signals isn't against the rules, and the entire issue was completely overblown by the media, and idiot fans who seemingly don't realize anyone in the stadium can see those signals.

***castlelong1*** · 04-09-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

Key word here is digital.

Why then were they using tape? A digital recorder can also be erased real quickly as you fight over the camera.

Have a nice day with your conspiracy theory.

borg · 04-09-2008, 01:56 PM

You got me on the conficated TAPE. Regardless, taping 32 defensive signals and flashing to the scoreboard would take (at 15 seconds per signal/flash) is 8 minutes per half of video. I would assume a team would have the technology to transfer video faster than actual play back time.